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Recording your tournament games: yes/no/why?
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Author:  RBerenguel [ Fri Feb 17, 2012 1:41 pm ]
Post subject:  Recording your tournament games: yes/no/why?
Tomorrow I'm playing in a tournament again, after 8 years. Technology has gone very far and now my iPod Touch (8 years ago it was like iWhat?) can record games. I'm thinking about recording my games in the tournament: something I would never dream of doing 8 years ago is now painless with SmartGo Kifu. Does anyone have any experience with it? It is seen as odd by your rival (or even other participants)?

Of course, before doing it (if I do it at all) I would ask my opponent for permission, just in case.
Author:  daniel_the_smith [ Fri Feb 17, 2012 1:55 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Recording your tournament games: yes/no/why?
It's relatively common. Tablets/smartphones make it easy to position the device so your opponent can see what you're doing, so I wouldn't even bother asking permission. I've never had anyone complain or even look vaguely unhappy.

...however, I think I may stop doing that and just put the game in from memory afterwards. Last weekend I played in a tournament and lost both games I recorded and won both games I did not record, and this is definitely not the first tournament that has happened to me. It doesn't *feel* like it distracts me, but this has happened enough that it needs an explanation...
Author:  RBerenguel [ Fri Feb 17, 2012 1:58 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Recording your tournament games: yes/no/why?
Got it. Will leave it for another tournament ;) I'm quite bad at remembering parts of my game: something is clear until I only remember a slump of stones, this is why I wanted "written record" :)
Author:  topazg [ Fri Feb 17, 2012 2:03 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Recording your tournament games: yes/no/why?
daniel_the_smith wrote:
...however, I think I may stop doing that and just put the game in from memory afterwards. Last weekend I played in a tournament and lost both games I recorded and won both games I did not record, and this is definitely not the first tournament that has happened to me. It doesn't *feel* like it distracts me, but this has happened enough that it needs an explanation...


I've heard this from a lot of people. I've even experienced it myself, and put it down to coincidence, but I'm beginning to suspect it may not be.
Author:  daniel_the_smith [ Fri Feb 17, 2012 2:16 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Recording your tournament games: yes/no/why?
RBerenguel wrote:
Got it. Will leave it for another tournament ;) I'm quite bad at remembering parts of my game: something is clear until I only remember a slump of stones, this is why I wanted "written record" :)


Depending on what you want, it may still be a great idea to record your game. Plus, it may not affect you like it seems to affect me. Tournament games are good ones to review.

topazg wrote:
daniel_the_smith wrote:
...however, I think I may stop doing that and just put the game in from memory afterwards. Last weekend I played in a tournament and lost both games I recorded and won both games I did not record, and this is definitely not the first tournament that has happened to me. It doesn't *feel* like it distracts me, but this has happened enough that it needs an explanation...


I've heard this from a lot of people. I've even experienced it myself, and put it down to coincidence, but I'm beginning to suspect it may not be.


Maybe it's just an impression. I should look through the games recorded on my ipad-- this theory predicts that I will have won less than 50% of them.

It could be something else, like maybe I play sucky in the morning and that's also when I tend to record games...
Author:  xed_over [ Fri Feb 17, 2012 2:31 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Recording your tournament games: yes/no/why?
topazg wrote:
daniel_the_smith wrote:
...however, I think I may stop doing that and just put the game in from memory afterwards. Last weekend I played in a tournament and lost both games I recorded and won both games I did not record, and this is definitely not the first tournament that has happened to me. It doesn't *feel* like it distracts me, but this has happened enough that it needs an explanation...


I've heard this from a lot of people. I've even experienced it myself, and put it down to coincidence, but I'm beginning to suspect it may not be.

I figure I lose about 2-3 stones in strength when I record my games, but for me its worth it, because then I have a record of my games that I otherwise would not be able to remember.

Except for my very first tournament, I've recorded all my tournament games -- on paper.
Author:  hyperpape [ Fri Feb 17, 2012 2:31 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Recording your tournament games: yes/no/why?
I've never felt comfortable doing it because I worry it would mess with my concentration, but I always really like it when my opponent does and can send me the record.

So how selfish are you?
Author:  Simba [ Fri Feb 17, 2012 2:59 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Recording your tournament games: yes/no/why?
I'm not surprised it makes people weaker. One of my opponents at one tournament I went to was so busy faffing about on his phone trying to record our game that he missed quite a few very important things in the game I'm sure he would've seen if he was paying attention. I suppose it depends how good your memory is. When I played the game back to him afterwards from memory and reviewed it (while ironically he was confusedly looking at his phone with a slight "wtf?" since I replayed it the opposite way up to how his phone recorded it) he was like "holy crap how do you remember all that?!" I guess you can compare it to messing around chatting on MSN while you play - just another distraction, I probably am at least 2 stones weaker when talking to people while I play. If you always rely on writing down or recording games on a phone, I think it would hamper your ability to remember games (and by extension, even shapes in general). It's kind of like playing with a joseki book. You might get the joseki right from a textbook, but good luck repeating it when the book is taken away :P .
Author:  Bill Spight [ Fri Feb 17, 2012 3:00 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Recording your tournament games: yes/no/why?
Back in the days of colored pencils and paper, I used to record my tournament games. I followed the suggestion -- IIRC, it came from Botvinnik --, of recording my move before playing it on the board. I have no regrets. :)
Author:  hyperpape [ Fri Feb 17, 2012 3:07 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Recording your tournament games: yes/no/why?
That is a thousand times more elegant than sitting on your hands (which I often do).
Author:  Ortho [ Sat Feb 18, 2012 12:09 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Recording your tournament games: yes/no/why?
I record most of my tournament games on my ipod but I stop recording the moves when I get into time trouble in the (usually) late middlegame. I don't think it's any big drain on concentration and my opponents don't ever seem to mind.
Author:  lobotommy [ Sat Feb 18, 2012 1:19 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Recording your tournament games: yes/no/why?
Losing on time because of game recording - yup, very often in the past. But you need to train yourself in games recording then it would eventually turn to habit. I observed that my last tournament I played not so bad even with game-recording-distraction. It is all about concentration and focusing your mind on game. If you are focused then game recording should not distract you - it is the same board right ;) ?
But yeah, it can be hard at the begining, and you loose about 5 second for each move. Multiply this by number of moves and you will know how many time you 'waste'. Solution: record moves when it is opponent's time.
Author:  lindentree [ Sat Feb 18, 2012 1:24 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Recording your tournament games: yes/no/why?
From my experience, if you can't replay the game right after, most of your moves aren't going to be worth recording. If I need help remembering, sometimes I ask my opponent to go over and review the game with me in the time between rounds and make a record then.
Author:  p2501 [ Sat Feb 18, 2012 7:33 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Recording your tournament games: yes/no/why?
My go really suffers when I try to record my games, so what I did last time was record with a videocamera. I was a total freak at the tournament but I didn't care ^^
Author:  Akura [ Sat Feb 18, 2012 9:17 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Recording your tournament games: yes/no/why?
At my last tournament (4th, 5th of february) most people recorded their games, at least at the sdk tables where I sat. I was the only one who used paper kifus and a red and black pen, most players used their smart phone. I didn't had any problem concentrating on the board or running out of time.

p2501 wrote:
My go really suffers when I try to record my games, so what I did last time was record with a videocamera. I was a total freak at the tournament but I didn't care ^^


A really nice way, several people used, is to take a photo of the goban every 10-20 moves or when a fight is locally finished.
Author:  TMark [ Sat Feb 18, 2012 10:05 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Recording your tournament games: yes/no/why?
I am from the generation that used to record games on paper and I also would then go over the record again, when I got home, to make a cleaner record and study the game. One of the best memories I have after I started using a laptop was of recording nearly all of three games in a tournament on the train going home afterwards. There was no room on the table at the tournament during the games. It is very good practice to try to remember your games.

Best wishes.
Author:  Fedya [ Sat Feb 18, 2012 8:17 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Recording your tournament games: yes/no/why?
lindentree wrote:
From my experience, if you can't replay the game right after, most of your moves aren't going to be worth recording.

But won't you keep making the same mistakes then?

I wish that not recording or going over bad moves meant that I'd simply forget them. Perhaps it would help me play something better the next time. :mad:
Author:  lindentree [ Sat Feb 18, 2012 9:02 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Recording your tournament games: yes/no/why?
Fedya wrote:
lindentree wrote:
From my experience, if you can't replay the game right after, most of your moves aren't going to be worth recording.

But won't you keep making the same mistakes then?

I wish that not recording or going over bad moves meant that I'd simply forget them. Perhaps it would help me play something better the next time. :mad:


I meant it usually shows you didn't think very hard about each move; it's not hard to remember even the terrible moves if you had some reasoning behind them. ("I played that empty triangle to try and split his stones, but it didn't work" etc)

It's even easier to remember if you spot the correct move right after during the game, and spend time kicking yourself for it. ;-)
Author:  EdLee [ Sat Feb 18, 2012 9:49 pm ]
Post subject: 
RBerenguel,
Of course, yes. Because review is very important.
For Go, I don't use any smartphone, iPhone, iPad, or any other computing device.
I still use a very simple point-and-shoot digital camera and take photos of the board
every few moves (fast-forward in josekis; slo-mo for messy fights, ko, yose).
When I get home, I transfer the photos to SGF by hand, using MultiGo.
I've been recording all my serious in-person games this way since 2007.
At around 100 games a year, averaging maybe 100 photos per game,
that's about 50,000 photos.

I disable the flash, all beeps, sounds, or other annoying features in my camera which has no zoom lens.
It's no more distracting than when chess players record their moves with paper and pencil,
or when someone sips water from a paper cup, or walks around in the tourney room.

Good luck with your tourney. :mrgreen:
Author:  Jedo [ Sun Feb 19, 2012 12:15 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Recording your tournament games: yes/no/why?
I recommend not recording your games. First of all, I think it's a little distracting for most people, as has been said. More importantly though I think it hurts your memory. I think it's better practice to try and remember your games by trying to record them afterwards. It will seem very hard at first, but it gets easier and is an important skill. Also, I think it helps illuminate what moves you made without putting a lot of though into them. On the other hand, it is nice to have a perfect record of a tournament game for review purposes. Perhaps trying to remember most of them and just recording one is best.
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