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Dress Code
http://www.lifein19x19.com/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=5657		 Page 1 of 2
Author:  Javaness2 [ Tue Mar 13, 2012 11:22 am ]
Post subject:  Dress Code
I wonder what people make of the European Chess Union's new dress code policy. It's gotten quite a bit of attention in the media, mainly because it affords the opportunity of placing some female funbag pictures into the article - see example (worksafe)
The actual reasons for introducing the code were down to making players look smart for top flight sponsored events.

In events like the World Amateur, there is a dress code, which a lot of the participants just totally avoid. Do you think dress codes are a good idea or not? (Try not to mention boo-boos in your explanations)
Author:  RBerenguel [ Tue Mar 13, 2012 11:44 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Dress Code
Well, setting aside boo-boos... Hmmm yes, probably makes sense anyway
Author:  TMark [ Tue Mar 13, 2012 12:10 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Dress Code
When you are accepting the hospitality of the Chinese/Japanese/Koreans in their country, it is best to go some way towards looking smart for the event. Looking like a homeless person (or a computer programmer on a good day) is insulting to your hosts and is likely to impact on future sponsorship. They are honouring you with the invitation, not the other way around.

Best wishes.
Author:  Bonobo [ Tue Mar 13, 2012 12:38 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Dress Code
Well, to honour somebody, in my codex, means to take them as they are.

Nirvana - Come As You Are
Author:  wms [ Tue Mar 13, 2012 12:43 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Dress Code
I agree that requiring people to dress decently when representing the organization by playing in an organization-sponsored event is reasonable. But saying "no cleavage because it is distracting" is stupid IMHO. If you can't keep your mind on the game when there is a woman in a low cut top nearby then that is your problem, not hers. If a woman can look professional and have some cleavage visible at the same time, then there's no reason for the organization to prohibit it.
Author:  RBerenguel [ Tue Mar 13, 2012 1:18 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Dress Code
wms wrote:
I agree that requiring people to dress decently when representing the organization by playing in an organization-sponsored event is reasonable. But saying "no cleavage because it is distracting" is stupid IMHO. If you can't keep your mind on the game when there is a woman in a low cut top nearby then that is your problem, not hers. If a woman can look professional and have some cleavage visible at the same time, then there's no reason for the organization to prohibit it.


Problem is, either you set the threshold at 0 or no threshold....
Author:  topazg [ Tue Mar 13, 2012 1:26 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Dress Code
Personally, I think dress code requires some common sense. If a woman has cleavage at a tournament, big deal - as long as what she's wearing is "family friendly", I'm not fussed. Frankly, even if a woman deliberately flashes some cleavage at me during a game to be distracting (this has happened to me before in a chess tournament), I'd find it really rather amusing (I was embarrassed at the time because I was rather younger and oh so innocent back then :P).

I also agree with T Mark, I do think some cultural understanding is important. If I'm going to a Go salon that has a certain background (such as Japanese businessmen) then I'll make an effort to work out what sort of things they would typically wear, and try to dress accordingly. Similarly, if I go to a local pub, I'm not going to dress up in a smart suit to go. I'm really against legislation for this kind of thing - are men not allowed to wear particularly tight fitting jeans/trousers in case females are distracted? Are we to be sexist enough to claim that women are above it but men aren't? Even if that was claimed, is it not then the man's problem?

Sounds like a slippery slope to me.
Author:  topazg [ Tue Mar 13, 2012 2:28 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Dress Code
Thomson and Thompson don't you mean?! (Interesting translation thing there I guess :))
Author:  Javaness2 [ Tue Mar 13, 2012 2:32 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Dress Code
I'd take your point Topazg. Not sure how you codify tight fitting trousers though...
or if that sort of thing is really hot or not. To be fair, woman can also wear tight fitting shirts, so long as they are buttoned properly :)
Author:  daniel_the_smith [ Tue Mar 13, 2012 2:51 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Dress Code
TMark wrote:
(or a computer programmer on a good day)


Hey!

...Not that I can say it's inaccurate, but still...
Author:  shapenaji [ Tue Mar 13, 2012 4:15 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Dress Code
Excellent response to this issue that I read on a friend's fb feed:
(Paraphrased)
"If we have to cover up, then the men need to bathe"
Author:  daniel_the_smith [ Tue Mar 13, 2012 4:26 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Dress Code
wms wrote:
But saying "no cleavage because it is distracting" is stupid IMHO. If you can't keep your mind on the game when there is a woman in a low cut top nearby then that is your problem, not hers.


Well said.

The real question is, why are there so many people who are both affected by that and stupid enough to admit it?

If it's really an issue, set up a screen so the players can't see each other or some such. Sexist dress codes are a few decades out of place by now, I would like to believe...
Author:  Tami [ Tue Mar 13, 2012 4:51 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Dress Code
I think a reasonable policy for an event would be to request people not to wear outfits that would attract undue attention, and to judge anything borderline case-by-case. Freedom of expression for sure, but also respect for social context and other people's sensitivities. A recommended dress code does not have to be strict, but could help people to choose an appropriate look for the occasion.
Author:  hyperpape [ Tue Mar 13, 2012 5:21 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Dress Code
In this chess base article, there are comments to the effect that the "attractive woman issue" wasn't what this was about, so much as the professor problem (http://www.chessbase.com/newsdetail.asp?newsid=7970).

Second button from the top open seems to be a pretty ordinary norm, and one that applies to men too. You occasionally see someone showing a bit too much chest hair.
Author:  jts [ Tue Mar 13, 2012 5:22 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Dress Code
By the way, which of the rules in that document is supposed to be banning cleavage? I see a ban on unbuttoning shirts ("The third button shall be buttoned, and three shall be the number of the buttoning; and thou shalt button thy polos, and shirts, and vests, and sweater vests, and t-shirts, and polo t-shirts; yea, verily unto the third button thou shalt button them.") but nothing on the modesty of dresses and other forms of vestment deprived of the majestic button.

My bottom line is that any dress code that involves jeans does not need to be written out in such detail. Specifying that clothing must have "colors" and "fabric" seems to be, hmm, a bit... inexplicable.
Author:  ez4u [ Tue Mar 13, 2012 11:11 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Dress Code
Javaness2 wrote:
I wonder what people make of the European Chess Union's new dress code policy. It's gotten quite a bit of attention in the media, mainly because it affords the opportunity of placing some female funbag pictures into the article - see example (worksafe)
The actual reasons for introducing the code were down to making players look smart for top flight sponsored events.

In events like the World Amateur, there is a dress code, which a lot of the participants just totally avoid. Do you think dress codes are a good idea or not? (Try not to mention boo-boos in your explanations)

Note that the "funbag picture" in the article is from a linked story on a German dentist who clearly does not agree with the idea that there is no effect. :blackeye:

"A dentist and her nurses in Germany have reportedly changed their uniforms to cleavage-maximising 'Alpine lounge'-themed outfits in a supposed bid to ease patients' fears.

According to Metro, Dr Marie-Catherine Klarkowski came up with the idea for herself and her ten assistants after visiting an Oktoberfest event featuring barmaids in revealing 'dirndls'.

Klarkowski said: "The most important thing is to take away patients' fear. The sight of cleavages gets patients narcotised and distracted from the pain rather quickly..."
Author:  tj86430 [ Tue Mar 13, 2012 11:16 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Dress Code
hyperpape wrote:
Second button from the top open seems to be a pretty ordinary norm, and one that applies to men too. You occasionally see someone showing a bit too much chest hair.

This reminds me of the one and only occasion when I played bridge against the legendary Giorgio Belladonna; he had about five buttons from the top open :razz:
Author:  hyperpape [ Wed Mar 14, 2012 4:29 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Dress Code
Esu wrote:
Does this mean Cho Chikun will have to start combing?
I just changed my mind. This dress code is a terrible idea.
Author:  tchan001 [ Wed Mar 14, 2012 4:46 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Dress Code
Guess you'll have to play her where they don't have dress codes.
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Author:  Ortho [ Wed Mar 14, 2012 4:51 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Dress Code
shapenaji wrote:
Excellent response to this issue that I read on a friend's fb feed:
(Paraphrased)
"If we have to cover up, then the men need to bathe"



This is a bigger problem at Go tournaments than what people wear imo.
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