Life In 19x19
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Piracy On Life In 19x19?
http://www.lifein19x19.com/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=5694		 Page 1 of 2
Author:  TKP [ Tue Mar 20, 2012 4:49 pm ]
Post subject:  Piracy On Life In 19x19?
There was this very long debate about piracy (viewtopic.php?f=10&t=4794) which I read on this site recently. It seems to be a topic which concerns a lot of people, including me. Today I was visiting another one of my favorite go sites and I saw this (http://gogameguru.com/baduk-tv-coming-g ... mment-3798). I wondered about that "L19TV" (http://www.lifein19x19.com/L19TV.php) page back when I first read the talk about piracy, but I figured it must've been arranged with BadukTV somehow. What's the story with that?
Author:  kivi [ Wed Mar 21, 2012 1:54 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Piracy On Life In 19x19?
If you check you can see the stream is from USTREAM. Click the logo on top right, then you will see the original stream. Source is somebody called chbee, and he even tried a shot at payed subscription (I don't know about details). L19 just embeds his stream into a page, coupled with a chat window under it. Nice idea actually, you can talk about what you watching, like kibitzing on KGS.

So in some sense, chbee is the original pirate, and L19 is pirating from the pirate. I think it is not a totally bad thing though, as many wouldn't be into BadukTV if it was not for these pirate stream (or L19).

Btw. I am also very excited about GGG cooperating with BadukTV. There will be a stream and also video-on-demand which is great. Some people are even asking about subtitling service, but I say lets start learning Korean :)
Author:  hyperpape [ Wed Mar 21, 2012 2:09 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Piracy On Life In 19x19?
I think that whatever we think about the current incarnation, we should defer to gogameguru once they have a legitimate stream available.
Author:  jts [ Wed Mar 21, 2012 2:31 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Piracy On Life In 19x19?
I'd also like to note that someone has posted a big thread full of used book offers. :/
Author:  RBerenguel [ Wed Mar 21, 2012 2:48 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Piracy On Life In 19x19?
Selling used books is not piracy (even if some editors would love it to be)
Author:  jts [ Wed Mar 21, 2012 3:19 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Piracy On Life In 19x19?
RBerenguel wrote:
Selling used books is not piracy (even if some editors would love it to be)

Well, I don't see how its effects are any better. Perhaps there is one relevant difference. Someone who has an illegal electronic copy of a book may decide he likes it enough to purchase a physical copy of the book. When you buy a used copy, you already have a physical copy of the book, so there is no chance that you will ever benefit the author, editor, or publisher in any way.
Author:  RBerenguel [ Wed Mar 21, 2012 3:24 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Piracy On Life In 19x19?
It's effects are not any better, but it is not illegal, so... I'm happy to be buying The Style of Lee ChangHo :)
Author:  judicata [ Wed Mar 21, 2012 3:26 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Piracy On Life In 19x19?
jts wrote:
Well, I don't see how its effects are any better. Perhaps there is one relevant difference. Someone who has an illegal electronic copy of a book may decide he likes it enough to purchase a physical copy of the book. When you buy a used copy, you already have a physical copy of the book, so there is no chance that you will ever benefit the author, editor, or publisher in any way.


Because part of the price I'm willing to pay for a physical copy of a book includes the potential resale value.

Geez, I think people on this forum argue too much about copyright law. That's right, a lawyer is accusing people of arguing too much. :) (btw, this last comment is not directed at jts, though it should be taken lightly anyway)
Author:  hyperpape [ Wed Mar 21, 2012 3:28 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Piracy On Life In 19x19?
judicata wrote:
Geez, I think people on this forum argue too much about copyright law. That's right, a lawyer is accusing people of arguing too much. :) (btw, this last comment is not directed at jts, though it should be taken lightly anyway)
You get to argue professionally, whereas we have to get our kicks as a hobby.
Author:  TKP [ Fri Mar 23, 2012 7:45 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Piracy On Life In 19x19?
Thanks for explaining the situation kivi and others. I was aware of that TV page but not the exact mechanism of how the video gets on Life in 19x19. So it sounds like what people are saying is that it is pirated and everyone is sort of burying their heads in the sand? Have I understood that correctly? I'm sorry if I'm being a bit thick here. I'm not that good with computers, but it seems to me that it doesn't matter who the original pirate is. For example with a CD, copying a copy of a copy is still piracy, so isn't this the same? It looks to me like nobody here has come back with the official Life in 19x19 position and that concerns me.
Author:  Kaya.gs [ Fri Mar 23, 2012 9:36 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Piracy On Life In 19x19?
TKP wrote:
Thanks for explaining the situation kivi and others. I was aware of that TV page but not the exact mechanism of how the video gets on Life in 19x19. So it sounds like what people are saying is that it is pirated and everyone is sort of burying their heads in the sand? Have I understood that correctly? I'm sorry if I'm being a bit thick here. I'm not that good with computers, but it seems to me that it doesn't matter who the original pirate is. For example with a CD, copying a copy of a copy is still piracy, so isn't this the same? It looks to me like nobody here has come back with the official Life in 19x19 position and that concerns me.


Im pretty sure there is no official L19x19 position on this matter.
Watching a pirate stream is not illegal.

From a legal standpoint, the question is what counts as re-distribution. Certainly hosting the files would be accessory, but just sharing the links, i don't know. And such a gray area is nonexistent in a community as small as this one.

I have tried to look into this when people started broadcasting badukTV on Kaya from that very stream, but i couldnt get anything from Ustreams policy. Surely, BadukTv can shut down that stream if they make a complaint, which i guess they haven't done because they really have nothing to gain (not a single $).
Probably GGG will report pirate streams and they will simply get shut down once they get the operations going.
Author:  RBerenguel [ Sat Mar 24, 2012 8:53 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Piracy On Life In 19x19?
There is a new law here in Spain (for Spain based sites): linking to illegal copyrighted content is illegal. Just sayin'
Author:  hyperpape [ Sat Mar 24, 2012 9:05 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Piracy On Life In 19x19?
jts wrote:
RBerenguel wrote:
Selling used books is not piracy (even if some editors would love it to be)

Well, I don't see how its effects are any better. Perhaps there is one relevant difference. Someone who has an illegal electronic copy of a book may decide he likes it enough to purchase a physical copy of the book. When you buy a used copy, you already have a physical copy of the book, so there is no chance that you will ever benefit the author, editor, or publisher in any way.
Surely there are many potential differences, and almost always at least one of them will be present: used books are not typically free, there are transaction costs to acquiring them, used books are almost always available only with a delay, there is a fundamental constraint on how many people can have used books based on the number of books initially sold, used books may be of lower quality than the same book new. Further, the ability to sell used books may subsidize the purchase of new books by the most extreme purchasers of books. I know of people who buy a book a day and sell the majority of them used.

Maybe you have a theory where none of that matters, but there's a lot of apparent differences.
Author:  uPWarrior [ Sat Mar 24, 2012 9:43 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Piracy On Life In 19x19?
RBerenguel wrote:
There is a new law here in Spain (for Spain based sites): linking to illegal copyrighted content is illegal. Just sayin'

That's plain stupid. Just sayin'.
Are you sure that's what the law says? Because every search engine is going down soon.
Author:  RBerenguel [ Sat Mar 24, 2012 10:37 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Piracy On Life In 19x19?
uPWarrior wrote:
RBerenguel wrote:
There is a new law here in Spain (for Spain based sites): linking to illegal copyrighted content is illegal. Just sayin'

That's plain stupid. Just sayin'.
Are you sure that's what the law says? Because every search engine is going down soon.

Yes, I'm sure. I also said based in Spain and I referred to sites. There's some distance between an automated spider indexer and a site full of pirated content like seriesyonkis.com, also it is not automatic: someone has to sue and any search engine can win this particular case I think. The fact that the law is very stupid has been very clear here in Spain since the beginning.
Author:  Laman [ Sun Mar 25, 2012 1:09 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Piracy On Life In 19x19?
uPWarrior wrote:
That's plain stupid. Just sayin'.
Are you sure that's what the law says? Because every search engine is going down soon.

if i get it right, we have the same law in Czechia for quite a some time. so all warez sites have to post the links in Code tags (that is, non-clickable). pretty absurd :)
Author:  badukJr [ Sun Mar 25, 2012 6:20 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Piracy On Life In 19x19?
As long as nobody knows the content creator personally, or they don't know english enough to post here to complain about it, it seems ok to pirate things like this in the english speaking baduk community.
Author:  TKP [ Tue Mar 27, 2012 2:44 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Piracy On Life In 19x19?
badukJr wrote:
As long as nobody knows the content creator personally, or they don't know english enough to post here to complain about it, it seems ok to pirate things like this in the english speaking baduk community.


Are you serious or are you just trying to stir people? Unfortunately we don't live in the world of unicorns and rainbow expressways. This Korean company has a valuable asset that costs a lot to produce. It's perfectly reasonable for them to want to get a return on investment and expand their market beyond the borders of South Korea. The deal with the GoGameGuru kids shows an interest in doing precisely that.
Author:  NinG [ Tue Mar 27, 2012 3:54 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Piracy On Life In 19x19?
TKP wrote:
Are you serious or are you just trying to stir people? Unfortunately we don't live in the world of unicorns and rainbow expressways. This Korean company has a valuable asset that costs a lot to produce. It's perfectly reasonable for them to want to get a return on investment and expand their market beyond the borders of South Korea. The deal with the GoGameGuru kids shows an interest in doing precisely that.


So? If there was a way to pay for watching BadukTV (which will hopefully be there, when the GGG-cooperation works out), i would definitely prefer that to pirated content. However, as it stands now, it doesn't cost the company a single cent if I watch a stream without paying for it, because the alternative is to not watch it at all. I don't really see a moral problem here. If GGG offers a service to pay for BadukTV, I for myself will happily do that, and others maybe won't. But that's a totally different thing, because then you actually have the option to pay for it, in opposite of pirating it.
Of course this is not true if there is a way to pay for it right now, but afaik, there isn't.
Author:  Joaz Banbeck [ Tue Mar 27, 2012 5:02 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Piracy On Life In 19x19?
TKP wrote:
There was this very long debate about piracy (http://www.lifein19x19.com/forum/viewto ... =10&t=4794) which I read on this site recently. It seems to be a topic which concerns a lot of people, including me. Today I was visiting another one of my favorite go sites and I saw this (http://gogameguru.com/baduk-tv-coming-g ... mment-3798). I wondered about that "L19TV" (http://www.lifein19x19.com/L19TV.php) page back when I first read the talk about piracy, but I figured it must've been arranged with BadukTV somehow. What's the story with that?


I don't know the details, but I talked to Jordus, and he says that we are legitimate.
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