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| Free Handicaps http://www.lifein19x19.com/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=5844 |
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| Author: | SmoothOper [ Thu Apr 19, 2012 12:23 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Free Handicaps |
It seems most go clubs don't encourage Free Handicaps, if not out right banning them. Is this not the most annoying thing? |
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| Author: | Uberdude [ Thu Apr 19, 2012 12:42 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Free Handicaps |
Personally, I find the usage of "momentarily" to mean "in a moment" rather than "for a moment" more annoying. |
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| Author: | illluck [ Thu Apr 19, 2012 1:01 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Free Handicaps |
I think the standard handicap placement (at least up to 9 stones) is quite good by itself, and tends to lead to a fair amount of instructive situations on the board. Learning to use the handicap stones is more helpful than you might think. |
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| Author: | SmoothOper [ Thu Apr 19, 2012 2:34 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Free Handicaps |
illluck wrote: I think the standard handicap placement (at least up to 9 stones) is quite good by itself, and tends to lead to a fair amount of instructive situations on the board. Learning to use the handicap stones is more helpful than you might think. The problem I have is that in teaching instructors are teaching that the star points are the only places handicaps can go. Which is a poor sort of teaching considering the AGA permits free handicaps. Maybe you could improve your teaching by broadening your definition of handicap to meet the standard rules described by the AGA. |
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| Author: | illluck [ Thu Apr 19, 2012 3:07 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Free Handicaps |
I think it's the right of either player to refuse free placement. |
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| Author: | Uberdude [ Thu Apr 19, 2012 3:08 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Free Handicaps |
And more annoying than misuse of "momentarily" is when Americans assume everyone else is American  P.S. Apologies to those other residents of the Americas (such as my Argentinian aunt) who get annoyed by the commandeering of the adjective "American" by the USA . |
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| Author: | oren [ Thu Apr 19, 2012 3:19 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Free Handicaps |
Not that it matters, but the AGA rules are not free placement from my quick search. http://www.usgo.org/resources/downloads/AGATDGuide.pdf The handicap stones are traditionally played as follows: 2 stones on the 1st and 2nd star points 3 stones on the 1st through 3rd star points 4 stones on the 1st through 4th star points 5 stones on the 1st through 4th star points and the center point 6 stones on the 1st through 6th star points 7 stones on the 1st through 6th star points and the center point 8 stones on the 1st through 8th star points 9 stones on the 1st through 9th star points Unless otherwise specified, handicap stones shall be placed in this fashion. Handicaps greater than nine stones and handicaps on boards with fewer than 19 lines are not standardized.} |
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| Author: | speedchase [ Thu Apr 19, 2012 4:39 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Free Handicaps |
Also, the handicaps are set for a reason, star points make an instructive game. Letting the weaker player decide where to put them is letting him waste the stronger players time. Free handicap placement does have its advantages, but I understand the rules and would not call them annoying. |
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| Author: | shapenaji [ Thu Apr 19, 2012 5:08 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Free Handicaps |
I have no issue with free placement (although, there are some wacky things you can do with an 8 stone handicap and free placement, hint: Surround the center) I think it can actually be a very instructive teaching tool, and certainly alleviates some of the boredom of playing against handicap (Star point joseki get tiresome after a while). But that being said, handicap stones teach a very valuable lesson. Once you understand the value of a star point stone, then I think it's worth branching out. |
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| Author: | SmoothOper [ Thu Apr 19, 2012 6:43 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Free Handicaps |
Actually it says that white only gets to place the stones on the board after black finishes placing his stones including handicaps. oren wrote: Not that it matters, but the AGA rules are not free placement from my quick search.
http://www.usgo.org/resources/downloads/AGATDGuide.pdf The handicap stones are traditionally played as follows: 2 stones on the 1st and 2nd star points 3 stones on the 1st through 3rd star points 4 stones on the 1st through 4th star points 5 stones on the 1st through 4th star points and the center point 6 stones on the 1st through 6th star points 7 stones on the 1st through 6th star points and the center point 8 stones on the 1st through 8th star points 9 stones on the 1st through 9th star points Unless otherwise specified, handicap stones shall be placed in this fashion. Handicaps greater than nine stones and handicaps on boards with fewer than 19 lines are not standardized.} |
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| Author: | oren [ Thu Apr 19, 2012 7:41 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Free Handicaps |
SmoothOper wrote: Actually it says that white only gets to place the stones on the board after black finishes placing his stones including handicaps. Umm... I don't know if you read what I had there, but the AGA handicaps are dictated as the star points. I don't know where you're getting free placement rules from. If you believe handicap is free placement, please provide a section from rules saying that. The section I posted is pretty specific on handicap being on the star points. |
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| Author: | SmoothOper [ Thu Apr 19, 2012 7:53 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Free Handicaps |
Unless otherwise specified(by black), handicap stones shall be placed in this fashion So you see free handicaps it is. http://www.usgo.org/resources/downloads ... erules.pdf |
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| Author: | illluck [ Thu Apr 19, 2012 8:06 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Free Handicaps |
Why are you inserting your own words? Otherwise specified obviously means things like free placement handicap tournaments... |
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| Author: | badukJr [ Thu Apr 19, 2012 8:17 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Free Handicaps |
Its just occurred to me that its strange that 1 stone handicap can be placed anywhere. |
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| Author: | oren [ Thu Apr 19, 2012 8:17 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Free Handicaps |
"Unless otherwise specified" is a prerogative of the Tournament Directory. Almost all will follow the "traditional" rule as specified in the rulebook. |
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| Author: | SmoothOper [ Thu Apr 19, 2012 8:40 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Free Handicaps |
So obviously the default is free handicaps, and those are annoying traditional methods. |
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| Author: | oren [ Thu Apr 19, 2012 8:44 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Free Handicaps |
Sure, the AGA rules are annoying but they use star point handicap and not free placement. We finally agree.
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| Author: | SmoothOper [ Thu Apr 19, 2012 9:42 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Free Handicaps |
oren wrote: Sure, the AGA rules are annoying but they use star point handicap and not free placement. We finally agree. No. Free handicaps are the default and strong American club dan wan-na-bes that play go because they are tired of getting beat by Russian Chess Masters, but think they are somehow cool by adding some rules to a centuries old game so that they can be a couple stones stronger. And man, they really are annoying. |
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| Author: | jts [ Thu Apr 19, 2012 11:21 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Free Handicaps |
SmoothOper wrote: oren wrote: Sure, the AGA rules are annoying but they use star point handicap and not free placement. We finally agree. No. Free handicaps are the default and strong American club dan wan-na-bes that play go because they are tired of getting beat by Russian Chess Masters, but think they are somehow cool by adding some rules to a centuries old game so that they can be a couple stones stronger. And man, they really are annoying. If you think that people come to Go because they want a game without strong foreign players, you have a great deal to learn about the game. In fact, let's start your journey of discovery with this fun fact: the placement of handicap stones on star points is traditional and can be seen in handicap games played three hundred years ago. There was even a period when the placement of the first four stones on the star points was considered mandatory in even games! By the way, you sound angry and resentful (maybe it's just embarrassment about you confusion about aga rules). You should understand that the conditions of handicap games have little or nothing to do with the desire of stronger players to win games. If they wanted to win more, they would go play someone who could give them a challenge and teach them something new about the game. Playing a handicap game with you is an opportunity for you to learn from them. |
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| Author: | badukJr [ Fri Apr 20, 2012 5:44 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Free Handicaps |
SmoothOper wrote: oren wrote: Sure, the AGA rules are annoying but they use star point handicap and not free placement. We finally agree. No. Free handicaps are the default and strong American club dan wan-na-bes that play go because they are tired of getting beat by Russian Chess Masters, but think they are somehow cool by adding some rules to a centuries old game so that they can be a couple stones stronger. And man, they really are annoying. I think someone here is tired of taking handicap from people (^^)/~~~ |
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