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 Post subject: How to Become Pro?
Post #1 Posted: Mon May 14, 2012 7:19 pm 
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How does someone become a professional in China, Korea, Taiwan or Japan? I wanted to find out some more information on how many people pass a year, age limits etc. Just Curious.

http://senseis.xmp.net/?NihonKiInProfessionalExamination
Doesn't seem to help.

-Thanks in advance

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 Post subject: Re: How to Become Pro?
Post #2 Posted: Mon May 14, 2012 10:49 pm 
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I don't know about the washout statistics, etc., but there are couple of interesting sources that talk about the Korean system. One of the most interesting blogs (although it dates from 2005) is Benjamin Teuber's blog In a Korean Baduk School. At that time, he mentions that only 9 players become professional a year (7 men, 2 women).

Also see An Younggil 8p's article on a new (since 2009) points system for amateurs to become professional:
Cho Insun: An amateur turned professional go player.

That point system has no age limit, but if you read the article, you'll see it's not exactly a cakewalk. :D

If you really want the current details on the Korean system, maybe PM breakfast (Alexandre Dinerchtein 3p) who is on L19. Since he runs his own insei league, he may be in better touch with what's going on in Korea these days.

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 Post subject: Re: How to Become Pro?
Post #3 Posted: Mon May 14, 2012 11:10 pm 
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snorri wrote:
Since he runs his own insei league


Does he promote inseis to pros?:)

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 Post subject: Re: How to Become Pro?
Post #4 Posted: Tue May 15, 2012 12:15 am 
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"His own" insei league is not necessarily endorsed or linked up with any professional go associations. Just that he, as a pro, started such an online league in the similar style to what one might find in Korea.

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 Post subject: Re: How to Become Pro?
Post #5 Posted: Tue May 15, 2012 3:13 am 
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That's why it's called "Korean-style Insei League".

I remember that they thought about helping the strongest player in the league to get in touch with a korean Go-dojo, if this player wants to pursuit becoming a pro. Although, I don't know if this was ever applied.

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 Post subject: How to Become Pro?
Post #6 Posted: Tue May 15, 2012 3:54 pm 
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I remember from hikaru that the nihon kiin selected 3 a year. I wonder If that has changed.

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 Post subject: Re: How to Become Pro?
Post #7 Posted: Tue May 15, 2012 4:15 pm 
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They have a winter and summer pro tests as well as separate women pro tests.

http://www.nihonkiin.or.jp/saiyo/index.htm

The top insei makes it in through a competition

In the last winter tournament, two made pro through the pro test
http://www.nihonkiin.or.jp/saiyo/2012/honsen.htm

and one woman in the separate test
http://www.nihonkiin.or.jp/saiyo/2012/f_honsen.htm

And they had one pro each from Nagoya branch and Kansai branch.

So you end up with 6. This doesn't count the Kansai Kiin which runs its own tournament and pro system.

In a separate note, I found it interesting that the top three insei are all from Taiwan right now.

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 Post subject: Re: How to Become Pro?
Post #8 Posted: Tue May 15, 2012 4:41 pm 
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 Post subject: Re: How to Become Pro?
Post #9 Posted: Tue May 15, 2012 4:46 pm 
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Kirby wrote:
Don't try. Give up before it's too late!


Well, he didn't say he was trying to. :)

The "easiest" way would be to win the US Pro exam.

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 Post subject: Re: How to Become Pro?
Post #10 Posted: Tue May 15, 2012 5:32 pm 
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oren wrote:
Kirby wrote:
Don't try. Give up before it's too late!


Well, he didn't say he was trying to. :)

The "easiest" way would be to win the US Pro exam.


If you're going to get technical on me, winning the US Pro exam doesn't match his/her query, either, because he/she specifically asked about the process for becoming pro in "China, Korea, Taiwan or Japan."

In any case, go is a fun game, and my comments are mostly in jest (except for those that aren't)... And don't try to become pro!

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Post #11 Posted: Tue May 15, 2012 8:11 pm 
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Kirby wrote:
If you're going to get technical on me, winning the US Pro exam doesn't match his/her query, either, because he/she specifically asked about the process for becoming pro in "China, Korea, Taiwan or Japan."


True. It was more of a response to the thread subject "How to become pro".

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Post #12 Posted: Tue May 15, 2012 8:21 pm 
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oren wrote:
Kirby wrote:
If you're going to get technical on me, winning the US Pro exam doesn't match his/her query, either, because he/she specifically asked about the process for becoming pro in "China, Korea, Taiwan or Japan."


True. It was more of a response to the thread subject "How to become pro".

Hence the need to read the fine prints and learn the details that people are actually aiming for ;)

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 Post subject: Re: How to Become Pro?
Post #13 Posted: Wed May 16, 2012 5:45 pm 
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Being pro is more like some faraway dream to fantasize about. Im 16 and I just started a few months ago. No I don't plan on become pro. Just wanted some details. Is there anything in English that I can read? I think the whole thing about playing go professionally is interesting and was just wondering about what the loads of kids who don't become pro do.

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 Post subject: Re: How to Become Pro?
Post #14 Posted: Wed May 16, 2012 6:07 pm 
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oren wrote:
Kirby wrote:
Don't try. Give up before it's too late!


Well, he didn't say he was trying to. :)

The "easiest" way would be to win the US Pro exam.

Also, how many people can become u.s. pros this year?

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 Post subject: Re: How to Become Pro?
Post #15 Posted: Wed May 16, 2012 9:15 pm 
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mogosoup wrote:
oren wrote:
Kirby wrote:
Don't try. Give up before it's too late!


Well, he didn't say he was trying to. :)

The "easiest" way would be to win the US Pro exam.

Also, how many people can become u.s. pros this year?


Two.

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Post #16 Posted: Wed May 16, 2012 9:32 pm 
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mogosoup wrote:
Being pro is more like some faraway dream to fantasize about. Im 16 and I just started a few months ago. No I don't plan on become pro. Just wanted some details. Is there anything in English that I can read? I think the whole thing about playing go professionally is interesting and was just wondering about what the loads of kids who don't become pro do.


Well, have you read First Kyu? If not, it's worth it for a go player or fan.

There is a dark side to all of this. The situation for kids seriously studying to become pro in some countries is somewhat of a concern. Guo Juan 5p mentioned it in one of her recent KGS Plus lectures. Basically, there are these schools where kids study go to the exclusion of everything else, even primary school education. It used to be that a student training to be a professional would get at least some normal education, but if they were successful, they wouldn't go to college. Kano Yoshinori (of Graded Go Problems for Beginners fame), for example, is notable for actually having gone to university. But with kids today studying go from morning until midnight, that's a completely different situation. Most will not become pros, but then, what can they do if they give up everything else to become strong at go?

A while ago there was a posting on rec.games.go by someone who said something like, "any work for a 6dan?" The first response was, "do you know how to use a shovel?" I think that captures the essence of the situation.

I don't know where you are from. In the U.S., parents are not too keen on overspecialization. Maybe the most extreme case is for athletes or subcultures like the circus. But even then, kids get tutors and often get at least a GED or some college. There may be no analogy here for what is happening to these very young go students.

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Post #17 Posted: Wed May 16, 2012 10:09 pm 
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snorri wrote:
mogosoup wrote:
Being pro is more like some faraway dream to fantasize about. Im 16 and I just started a few months ago. No I don't plan on become pro. Just wanted some details. Is there anything in English that I can read? I think the whole thing about playing go professionally is interesting and was just wondering about what the loads of kids who don't become pro do.


Well, have you read First Kyu? If not, it's worth it for a go player or fan.

There is a dark side to all of this. The situation for kids seriously studying to become pro in some countries is somewhat of a concern. Guo Juan 5p mentioned it in one of her recent KGS Plus lectures. Basically, there are these schools where kids study go to the exclusion of everything else, even primary school education. It used to be that a student training to be a professional would get at least some normal education, but if they were successful, they wouldn't go to college. Kano Yoshinori (of Graded Go Problems for Beginners fame), for example, is notable for actually having gone to university. But with kids today studying go from morning until midnight, that's a completely different situation. Most will not become pros, but then, what can they do if they give up everything else to become strong at go?

A while ago there was a posting on rec.games.go by someone who said something like, "any work for a 6dan?" The first response was, "do you know how to use a shovel?" I think that captures the essence of the situation.

I don't know where you are from. In the U.S., parents are not too keen on overspecialization. Maybe the most extreme case is for athletes or subcultures like the circus. But even then, kids get tutors and often get at least a GED or some college. There may be no analogy here for what is happening to these very young go students.


I might get the book it's only 13 bucks on Amazon http://www.amazon.com/First-Kyu-Sung-Hwa-Hong/dp/0964479699

Do you know when Guo Juan's lecture took place. I'm subscribed to KGS PLUS. I want to look it up.

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 Post subject: Re: How to Become Pro?
Post #18 Posted: Thu May 17, 2012 9:36 am 
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snorri wrote:
mogosoup wrote:
Being pro is more like some faraway dream to fantasize about. Im 16 and I just started a few months ago. No I don't plan on become pro. Just wanted some details. Is there anything in English that I can read? I think the whole thing about playing go professionally is interesting and was just wondering about what the loads of kids who don't become pro do.


Well, have you read First Kyu? If not, it's worth it for a go player or fan.

There is a dark side to all of this. The situation for kids seriously studying to become pro in some countries is somewhat of a concern. Guo Juan 5p mentioned it in one of her recent KGS Plus lectures. Basically, there are these schools where kids study go to the exclusion of everything else, even primary school education. It used to be that a student training to be a professional would get at least some normal education, but if they were successful, they wouldn't go to college. Kano Yoshinori (of Graded Go Problems for Beginners fame), for example, is notable for actually having gone to university. But with kids today studying go from morning until midnight, that's a completely different situation. Most will not become pros, but then, what can they do if they give up everything else to become strong at go?

A while ago there was a posting on rec.games.go by someone who said something like, "any work for a 6dan?" The first response was, "do you know how to use a shovel?" I think that captures the essence of the situation.

I don't know where you are from. In the U.S., parents are not too keen on overspecialization. Maybe the most extreme case is for athletes or subcultures like the circus. But even then, kids get tutors and often get at least a GED or some college. There may be no analogy here for what is happening to these very young go students.


I am speculating that the kids in these schools are either A) from a well off family who can afford Go school which I guess is not cheap or B) have a family that is somehow connected to go in the first place, and subsequently have alternatives to playing Go like commentating and participating in the leagues(like so many of the not-quite professional basketball players with connections).

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Post #19 Posted: Thu May 17, 2012 9:45 am 
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snorri wrote:
There may be no analogy here for what is happening to these very young go students.
snorri, do you know (and I'm genuinely asking) about the situations for children striving to become tennis pros, swimming pros, etc
in various countries (including the US) ?

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Post #20 Posted: Thu May 17, 2012 9:50 am 
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SmoothOper wrote:
or B) have a family that is somehow connected to go in the first place...
If by "connected to Go" you mean "aware of Go," then this would include most families as Go has been part of the culture for thousands of years;
otherwise if you mean "connected to a Go pro or the Chinese Go Association," that would be no for most families.

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