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Why leave out the I after H in alphabet on gobans?
http://www.lifein19x19.com/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=6419		 Page 1 of 1
Author:  Alberich [ Thu Aug 02, 2012 10:06 am ]
Post subject:  Why leave out the I after H in alphabet on gobans?
I visited KGS this afternoon and something jumped out at me and I never noticed it until now. There is no I after H on the alphabet when looking at coordinates. I checked by looking at my other software titles and noticed the same thing...there is no I after H. Can anybody explain this?
Author:  schultz [ Thu Aug 02, 2012 10:23 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Why leave out the I after H in alphabet on gobans?
An I and l sure look alike, don't they? ;)
Author:  yoyoma [ Thu Aug 02, 2012 10:24 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Why leave out the I after H in alphabet on gobans?
lt's because in some fonts uppercase l and lowercase I look identicaI.
Author:  Actorios [ Thu Aug 02, 2012 10:27 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Why leave out the I after H in alphabet on gobans?
I may be confused with L in lower case. This is the reason why I is excluded as a convention.
Author:  kex [ Thu Aug 02, 2012 11:05 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Why leave out the I after H in alphabet on gobans?
Perhaps because I and J are pronounced in such a similar way :)
Author:  oren [ Thu Aug 02, 2012 11:12 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Why leave out the I after H in alphabet on gobans?
kex wrote:
Perhaps because I and J are pronounced in such a similar way :)


Are you sure it's not because i and j would have a fight over which is actually the square root of -1?
Author:  wms [ Thu Aug 02, 2012 12:26 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Why leave out the I after H in alphabet on gobans?
I've gotten a half dozen bug reports along these lines. From people sure it must be some crazy mistake that there is no "i" column on their board. I try to answer as nicely as I can. :grumpy:
Author:  shapenaji [ Thu Aug 02, 2012 2:21 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Why leave out the I after H in alphabet on gobans?
Hmm, "i" vs no "i" debate... and apparently no "i" wins... somebody has been taking liberties.
Author:  mdobbins [ Thu Aug 02, 2012 2:49 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Why leave out the I after H in alphabet on gobans?
Remembering a 20 year old discussion; the original recording notation was invented in Germany and either I and J are the same letter in German or they look and or sound too similar in German. The rest of the world just adopted that convention.
Author:  Bonobo [ Thu Aug 02, 2012 2:57 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Why leave out the I after H in alphabet on gobans?
mdobbins wrote:
Remembering a 20 year old discussion; the original recording notation was invented in Germany and either I and J are the same letter in German or they look and or sound too similar in German. The rest of the world just adopted that convention.

FWIW, in German, just an in English, i and j are written and spoken differently, so I guess the mentioned similarity between “I” (uppercase i) and “l” (lowercase L) must be the reason, just to rule out any misunderstandings w/o having to force ppl to use uppercase or lowercase letters.

Grüße aus Deutschland,

Tom
Author:  kex [ Fri Aug 03, 2012 10:25 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Why leave out the I after H in alphabet on gobans?
Actually, I and J look very similar in at least some fraktur typefaces. I could not find tekstur typefaces to check.
Author:  jts [ Fri Aug 03, 2012 10:20 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Why leave out the I after H in alphabet on gobans?
kex wrote:
Actually, I and J look very similar in at least some fraktur typefaces. I could not find tekstur typefaces to check.

Yes, this is it. Mdobbins had it. Go into a library and look for a German book from the 19th century.
Author:  hirohiigo [ Tue Aug 21, 2012 10:22 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Why leave out the I after H in alphabet on gobans?
I personally really hate that the westernized coordinates are totally upside down compared to the eastern coordinates. If you're coming from western igo and trying to, say, watch a Japanese igo broadcast, it's hard to tell what point the scorekeeper is announcing.
Author:  oren [ Tue Aug 21, 2012 12:34 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Why leave out the I after H in alphabet on gobans?
I find it strange that shogi and go have reversed the column coordinates starting position. When I watch NHK, it just seems strange to see the first game go one way and the next go another.
Author:  hirohiigo [ Tue Aug 21, 2012 4:03 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Why leave out the I after H in alphabet on gobans?
I don't know why igo's coordinates are the way they are, but shogi's coordinates are set up the way you would read vertical Japanese text: Starting from the top right, going down, and then going left.
Author:  oren [ Tue Aug 21, 2012 6:12 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Why leave out the I after H in alphabet on gobans?
hirohiigo wrote:
I don't know why igo's coordinates are the way they are, but shogi's coordinates are set up the way you would read vertical Japanese text: Starting from the top right, going down, and then going left.


My memory says it's from right to left, and then down. I'll rewatch the last NHK and check my memory banks.

Go is from left to right and then down.
Author:  hirohiigo [ Tue Aug 21, 2012 8:54 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Why leave out the I after H in alphabet on gobans?
We're thinking the same thing with different ways of remembering it. Yes, the first number goes left, and second number goes right. But I believe the way shogi's coordinates are set up is to make it natural for readers of vertical Japanese script.
Author:  karaklis [ Wed Aug 22, 2012 10:43 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Why leave out the I after H in alphabet on gobans?
The missing "I" cost me 12 years of my go "career". Back in 1996 I had some experience with IgoWin (I got clobbered) and some other 19x19 go program whose name I have forgotten. When I saw that the "I" was missing I felt displeased and my initial interest in go diminished. I got interested in go again in 2008. Twelve years lost :grumpy:
Author:  Kirby [ Wed Aug 22, 2012 11:08 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Why leave out the I after H in alphabet on gobans?
Steve Jobs patented the letter for Apple.
Author:  DJLLAP [ Fri Aug 24, 2012 10:28 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Why leave out the I after H in alphabet on gobans?
Kirby wrote:
Steve Jobs patented the letter for Apple.



This is the funniest thing I have read all day :)
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