Life In 19x19 :: Do you judge people by their rank?

I think the wording of the question is a little loaded, so I'll try to be precise in my answer. Suppose I've just met strangers A, B, and C. If I find that person A plays go seriously, I'd be more inclined to like that person irregardless of rank (even 30k is fine). If I find that person B is "strong at go" (hmm, maybe 3 Dan+) I am more inclined to respect or look up to that person. If I find that person C knows vaguely about Go, but has no interest in it... Well, I'd feel basically neutral towards that person.

Maybe it's a subtle prejudice, but it's certainly there.

If a 9d tells me that a particular move is bad, I have a hard time trusting him, unless I can see the reason for myself. If I don't see the reason myself, I'm inclined to think that he is wrong... I'm not sure why. I thought that more people would share this mentality.

I think i would pay more attention to a high-dan player which tell that a shape is bad than a lower player. But, if this D-player is just telling that a move is good or not, with any kind of explanation, i would prefer to listen the other one (if he can explain what he is trying to explain, of course).

I only judge people's comments by their ranks when it comes to them saying something about a right/wrong move or way to think about Go. If the topic is not related to improving one's play at Go, then I do not.

While I am willing to admit that a high ranked player may have some go-knowledge somewhere in his/her head, I don't believe that there has to be any relation between this knowledge and his/her ability to transfer said knowledge to someone else. I even doubt that the way he/she plays the game has to make sense for someone who does not already share his/her go-knowledge.

rubin427 wrote:

Perhaps the question is worded poorly. The reason is probably that I am surprised that people put so much weight on rank or strength, or whatever you want to call it. I cannot say that I am completely objective, but it is something that I want to aim for.

If a 9d tells me that a particular move is bad, I have a hard time trusting him, unless I can see the reason for myself. If I don't see the reason myself, I'm inclined to think that he is wrong... I'm not sure why. I thought that more people would share this mentality.

Maybe others do, but I've just worded the poll poorly.

Author:	Kirby [ Thu May 27, 2010 9:23 am ]
Post subject:	Do you judge people by their rank?
Do you prefer to listen to people that have a higher rank? Only when it comes to go? All the time?

Author:	tj86430 [ Thu May 27, 2010 9:32 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Do you judge people by their rank?
I chose the first option, but it really should read "when it comes go advice" or something similar. Of course I put more weight if a 9dan tells me what is the correct play than if it is 15 kyu. On other go-related matters (like equipment, organizing a tournament, etc ) rank may have some significance, but not so much. On non-go matters of course not, how could a go rank affect someones credibility in other areas of life?

Author:	Phelan [ Thu May 27, 2010 9:35 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Do you judge people by their rank?
I voted other. Depends on what they're talking about. Depends if they're talking about teaching Go, Go history, endgame peculiarities, rules oddities, etc. All of those subjects have people who are pretty knowledgeable about them, even though they're not the strongest in rank. On problems or analysis, yep, then I trust rank more than anything else, although I usually prefer entertaining/clear persons.

Author:	freegame [ Thu May 27, 2010 9:41 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Do you judge people by their rank?
I also voted other. same reason as Phelan

Author:	rubin427 [ Thu May 27, 2010 9:55 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Do you judge people by their rank?
I think the wording of the question is a little loaded, so I'll try to be precise in my answer. Suppose I've just met strangers A, B, and C. If I find that person A plays go seriously, I'd be more inclined to like that person irregardless of rank (even 30k is fine). If I find that person B is "strong at go" (hmm, maybe 3 Dan+) I am more inclined to respect or look up to that person. If I find that person C knows vaguely about Go, but has no interest in it... Well, I'd feel basically neutral towards that person. Maybe it's a subtle prejudice, but it's certainly there.

Life In 19x19 http://www.lifein19x19.com/

Do you judge people by their rank? http://www.lifein19x19.com/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=659	Page 1 of 2

Author:	Kirby [ Thu May 27, 2010 10:10 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Do you judge people by their rank?
rubin427 wrote: I think the wording of the question is a little loaded, so I'll try to be precise in my answer. Suppose I've just met strangers A, B, and C. If I find that person A plays go seriously, I'd be more inclined to like that person irregardless of rank (even 30k is fine). If I find that person B is "strong at go" (hmm, maybe 3 Dan+) I am more inclined to respect or look up to that person. If I find that person C knows vaguely about Go, but has no interest in it... Well, I'd feel basically neutral towards that person. Maybe it's a subtle prejudice, but it's certainly there. Perhaps the question is worded poorly. The reason is probably that I am surprised that people put so much weight on rank or strength, or whatever you want to call it. I cannot say that I am completely objective, but it is something that I want to aim for. If a 9d tells me that a particular move is bad, I have a hard time trusting him, unless I can see the reason for myself. If I don't see the reason myself, I'm inclined to think that he is wrong... I'm not sure why. I thought that more people would share this mentality. Maybe others do, but I've just worded the poll poorly.

Author:	tj86430 [ Thu May 27, 2010 10:26 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Do you judge people by their rank?
Kirby wrote: If a 9d tells me that a particular move is bad, I have a hard time trusting him, unless I can see the reason for myself. If I don't see the reason myself, I'm inclined to think that he is wrong... I'm not sure why. I thought that more people would share this mentality. If a 9d tells me that a particular move is bad, I have no problem trusting him. If I can't see the reason myself, I will ask him.

Author:	Elesthor [ Thu May 27, 2010 11:02 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Do you judge people by their rank?
I think i would pay more attention to a high-dan player which tell that a shape is bad than a lower player. But, if this D-player is just telling that a move is good or not, with any kind of explanation, i would prefer to listen the other one (if he can explain what he is trying to explain, of course).

Author:	Violence [ Thu May 27, 2010 11:09 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Do you judge people by their rank?
Often times, if I ask Mingjiu for a game review, he just says that this move is bad, or that move needs study. Usually he gives me a sequence and explanation, but sometimes he doesn't. The times he doesn't, it's an indication for me to go back and study the game on my own and read out for myself why something works or doesn't work.

Author:	palapiku [ Thu May 27, 2010 11:46 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Do you judge people by their rank?
Elesthor wrote: I think i would pay more attention to a high-dan player which tell that a shape is bad than a lower player. But, if this D-player is just telling that a move is good or not, with any kind of explanation, i would prefer to listen the other one (if he can explain what he is trying to explain, of course). What if the high dan says the move is bad but doesn't explain why, and the weaker player says that the move is good, and explains why?

Author:	Dusk Eagle [ Thu May 27, 2010 12:21 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Do you judge people by their rank?
I only judge people's comments by their ranks when it comes to them saying something about a right/wrong move or way to think about Go. If the topic is not related to improving one's play at Go, then I do not.

Author:	xed_over [ Thu May 27, 2010 12:55 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Do you judge people by their rank?
Dusk Eagle wrote: I only judge people's comments by their ranks when it comes to them saying something about a right/wrong move or way to think about Go. If the topic is not related to improving one's play at Go, then I do not. someone (a dan player) once had dismissed unfairly a comment by me (a kyu player). Some time later I was rather proud to have been able to hold my own in a conversation with that same player using one of my anonymous unranked accounts. I've also been the victim of being judged by my kyu rank and not allowed to do game recording, and was later able to prove myself superior to a few high dan players in this field as well. While its true that kyu players know less about go than dan players, one should not always dismiss them straight out. Sometimes they'll surprise you and stronger players do make mistakes from time to time. Heck, even pros can strongly disagree with each other on "right" or "wrong" plays, so we ought to give each other just a tiny bit more slack.

Author:	Chew Terr [ Thu May 27, 2010 1:01 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Do you judge people by their rank?
I'll put it this way: if I see a post saying 'X move seems to never be good', I definitely check to see the rank of the person posted it. If nothing else, it tells me how many grains of salt to accept the information with. Sure, I'd want to see why, but all other things equal, I assume the higher rank knows more. Because they do (if not regarding all subjects, at least the majority). And with regards to non-board specific information, I'd say that I tend more to judge people by experience. For example, when asking advice about what to bring to a tournament, I'd trust Goddess (who's been to a decent number, from what I understand) over, say, Blinigo Bleiqi, who may have never been to one. So yeah, I tend to trust whoever's most expert at any given issue. And I admit, I do tend to give a bit of extra respect to dan+ ranked players, because I know that (typically) it takes a WHOLE lot of work to get there, which lower ranked players may or may not have put in.

Author:	Loons [ Thu May 27, 2010 1:42 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Do you judge people by their rank?
I agree with Freegame, Phelan and company - when it comes to their skill at go, I judge people by rank. I wouldn't assume anything else about them. Man, howabout those 15ks in KGS kibitz who prefix their comments with HIGH DAN PLAYERS RESPOND ONLY

Page 1 of 2	All times are UTC - 8 hours [ DST ]
Powered by phpBB © 2000, 2002, 2005, 2007 phpBB Group http://www.phpbb.com/

Author:	Dusk Eagle [ Thu May 27, 2010 3:04 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Do you judge people by their rank?
xed_over: Although I wouldn't trust a beginner with game recording, I think that after a certain threshold (somewhere in the DDK range) your rank will no longer affect your ability to record a game properly. However, when a player makes a comment that I find odd or just plain wrong, I definitely consider their rank in relation to my own. If they're weaker, I do tend to assume they're wrong. If they're stronger, I still tend not to believe them immediately if I believe something different, but I find out pretty soon that they are correct.

Author:	topazg [ Thu May 27, 2010 3:12 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Do you judge people by their rank?
Helel wrote: While I am willing to admit that a high ranked player may have some go-knowledge somewhere in his/her head, I don't believe that there has to be any relation between this knowledge and his/her ability to transfer said knowledge to someone else. I even doubt that the way he/she plays the game has to make sense for someone who does not already share his/her go-knowledge. I agree. I would have said there is a correlation, it's just a rather loose one

Author:	kokomi [ Thu May 27, 2010 3:20 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Do you judge people by their rank?
Kirby wrote: rubin427 wrote: I think the wording of the question is a little loaded, so I'll try to be precise in my answer. Suppose I've just met strangers A, B, and C. If I find that person A plays go seriously, I'd be more inclined to like that person irregardless of rank (even 30k is fine). If I find that person B is "strong at go" (hmm, maybe 3 Dan+) I am more inclined to respect or look up to that person. If I find that person C knows vaguely about Go, but has no interest in it... Well, I'd feel basically neutral towards that person. Maybe it's a subtle prejudice, but it's certainly there. Perhaps the question is worded poorly. The reason is probably that I am surprised that people put so much weight on rank or strength, or whatever you want to call it. I cannot say that I am completely objective, but it is something that I want to aim for. If a 9d tells me that a particular move is bad, I have a hard time trusting him, unless I can see the reason for myself. If I don't see the reason myself, I'm inclined to think that he is wrong... I'm not sure why. I thought that more people would share this mentality. Maybe others do, but I've just worded the poll poorly. If you are SDK, you may not understand what the 9P told you at all, considering in some cases he read 50 moves ahead of you.

Author:	Chew Terr [ Thu May 27, 2010 3:31 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Do you judge people by their rank?
Interesting distinction. If a person is strong, it may be safe to assume that THEY know what they're talking about. =D

Author:	rubin427 [ Thu May 27, 2010 5:49 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Do you judge people by their rank?
Kirby wrote: Perhaps the question is worded poorly. The reason is probably that I am surprised that people put so much weight on rank or strength, or whatever you want to call it. I cannot say that I am completely objective, but it is something that I want to aim for. If a 9d tells me that a particular move is bad, I have a hard time trusting him, unless I can see the reason for myself. If I don't see the reason myself, I'm inclined to think that he is wrong... I'm not sure why. I thought that more people would share this mentality. Maybe others do, but I've just worded the poll poorly. So that's a slightly different question than I answered. Does a high rank(+6 stones) cause me to trust a stronger player's opinion about what's happening on the Go board (particularly in regards to my own games)? If the advice is very general, such as "The problem I see in your game is that you choose to make territory in gote too often. Instead you should pressure your opponent's weak groups too keep sente." I am inclined to trust a general statement like that and start looking for opportunities to utilize the advice. However, if the advice is very specific, such as "move 30 should have been at D-10. Yes, I trust that the stronger player has a very clear idea on why that move is better for him or her. But before I decide if it's the better move for me, I have to be able to understand the move (which sometimes just does not happen). Like others have hinted at, if the idea behind the move eludes me, then it is NOT the better move for me. On top of that, I believe that Go players each have their own style. It's possible that the move suggested is good, but just not consistent with your style of play. But, there are other times where a stronger player points out a specific move and I eventually "get it" and regret not making that move in my game. Does a low rank(-6 stones) cause me to distrust a weaker player's opinion about what's happening on the Go board (particularly in regards to my own games)? Yes, Always. (says the guy who qualified for the first round of the tournament. )

Author:	Magicwand [ Thu May 27, 2010 6:04 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Do you judge people by their rank?
"i am pointing at the moon but people only stare at my fingertip." when high dan say it is good or it is bad...dont concentrate on the answer. rather listen for the reason. two 9d may (rarely) disagree on good or bad. but both can be right. each has a reason behind why they think it is good or bad. you can not say their reasoning is wrong. if i (3d) say it is good and 5d say i am wrong then i am wrong on 5d level but i am right in 3d level. if you can learn from my reasoning (althought it might be wrong) then there is plenty you can learn from magicwand. i do sense some ill feeling and distrust towards my character throughout the forum. but i am right 100% on 3d level. just listen for my reasoning (if i give one) and try to understand and make that yours. NOT MY ANSWERS. (NOT MY FINGER TIP)