Life In 19x19
http://www.lifein19x19.com/

Lifein19x19 as a player (Legion game)
http://www.lifein19x19.com/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=6707		 Page 1 of 2
Author:  Alguien [ Mon Sep 10, 2012 2:30 am ]
Post subject:  Lifein19x19 as a player (Legion game)
[UPDATE]
- The legion player has been created.
- We have the blessing of the server owner.
- The list of players is up for registration.

[TO DO]
Once the list is filled and the private sub-forum has been set up, we'll ask for a game in the server.

[old thread]
The forum could work as a player in a turn based server.

Someone creates the user, finds a game with Fisher time 2days/move, set up a pool for each move and we discuss.

We vote and the user plays the most voted move. :)

(then we propose a korean forum to do the same and we challenge them!)
Author:  Splatted [ Mon Sep 10, 2012 3:38 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Lifein19x19 as a player
Lol, that sounds fun! XD
Author:  Phelan [ Mon Sep 10, 2012 5:53 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Lifein19x19 as a player
I think DGS supports shared accounts, I remember reading something about it, but can't find it now.
OGS' terms seem to prohibit it, though.

Interesting idea! :)

Edit: I might have been confusing The Go Teacher account with general multiple players per account. It's probably best to ask in their forum.
Author:  Alguien [ Mon Sep 10, 2012 6:30 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Lifein19x19 as a player
I've asked in DGS's forums.

One problem might be to play against one opponent who can clearly enter the forum and read all our tricky strategies and the predicted outcomes of every move.

I don't think we could have such an account without stating to our opponents that it's played by several people.

On the other hand, I suppose LI19x19 would play, with this system, at least at a 4d-5d level, so I suppose that we could get a mature and serious opponent who wouldn't lurk the forum to check our discussions.
Author:  illluck [ Mon Sep 10, 2012 6:45 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Lifein19x19 as a player
I don't think OGS will prohibit this either :)
Author:  topazg [ Mon Sep 10, 2012 6:48 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Lifein19x19 as a player
illluck wrote:
I don't think OGS will prohibit this either :)


Agreed. There are restriction in there, but they're really for sandbagging / gaming the system etc. This isn't really going against the spirit of the restriction (which I wrote originally, so unless it's changed since then ..) - I'm pretty certain something like this would be perfectly ok :)
Author:  OtakuViking [ Mon Sep 10, 2012 6:56 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Lifein19x19 as a player
I really like this idea. Would love if it became a reality ^_^
Author:  jts [ Mon Sep 10, 2012 7:00 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Lifein19x19 as a player
I think this would end like joaz's dankovitch.
Author:  Shaddy [ Mon Sep 10, 2012 7:54 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Lifein19x19 as a player
I don't think the forum as a collective could play at a 4-5d level. As evidence, I present the dankovich game.
Author:  karaklis [ Mon Sep 10, 2012 9:21 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Lifein19x19 as a player
This reminds me a bit of WuRengo.
Author:  Boidhre [ Mon Sep 10, 2012 3:50 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Lifein19x19 as a player
Alguien wrote:
I've asked in DGS's forums.

One problem might be to play against one opponent who can clearly enter the forum and read all our tricky strategies and the predicted outcomes of every move.

I don't think we could have such an account without stating to our opponents that it's played by several people.

On the other hand, I suppose LI19x19 would play, with this system, at least at a 4d-5d level, so I suppose that we could get a mature and serious opponent who wouldn't lurk the forum to check our discussions.


Or just have a private forum for the purpose.
Author:  Joaz Banbeck [ Mon Sep 10, 2012 4:08 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Lifein19x19 as a player
Boidhre wrote:
...
Or just have a private forum for the purpose.

[admin]
That can be done. I'd need to know who is participating. Give me a list of names, and I'll create it.
[/admin]


BTW ( in non-admin mode ) we tried this before. Voting and scheduling became way more work than we had imagined. I do hope that you succeed where we failed.
Author:  speedchase [ Mon Sep 10, 2012 5:33 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Lifein19x19 as a player
That sounds like fun (although I don't think we would play very well). either way, I would participate. I think we should try it :).
Author:  Splatted [ Mon Sep 10, 2012 11:56 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Lifein19x19 as a player
How about we designate a certain time each day at which point the move that has the most votes gets played. If multiple moves have the same number of votes we can just let the move-maker chose. That way the moves get made at a reasonable rate and it's easy to organise. Participating players can join in when they have the time/inclination but they don't have to worry about holding up the game.

Voting for moves could be done by posting diagrams and people liking the ones they want to play. Triggers would also work though each move would have to have a post of it's own.
Author:  Alguien [ Tue Sep 11, 2012 12:12 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Lifein19x19 as a player
I've created the DGS account. http://www.dragongoserver.net/userinfo.php?uid=73347

With the private forum solution in mind, I'd propose the following organization.

- There is one owner of the game, the stone placer. He is the user who plays each move in DGS. I'm talking with Jug about sharing the account's pass to account for holidays, etc.
- There is only one "official" thread per move: the voting thread.
- The voting thread is created by the stone placer with the last position.
- The voting thread is for voting only. Just "R4".
- All discussion about what to play can be done in other threads and people would be free to create them and read them all to see what path they agree with.
- Once every X time (two days?), the stone placer posts a "LAST VOTE" post in the playing thread, counts the votes and plays on the most voted position.
- When the move is answered, the stone placer creates a new voting thread with just the position and people can start chatting in the other threads about what to play next.
- The stone placer only votes in case of draw, so there is no draw problem.
Author:  Lamp [ Tue Sep 11, 2012 12:17 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Lifein19x19 as a player
I would be interested in participating. Obviously I'm too weak to be of much help, but I think it would be a great learning experience to read see the game played out this way and read all the discussion.
Author:  Splatted [ Tue Sep 11, 2012 1:55 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Lifein19x19 as a player
Is there any way for ranks to be hidden when posting in a particular sub-forum? I think it would be a lot easier for weaker players to participate if it isn't so obvious that we're trying to contradict a 6d, and it would encourage the stronger players to clearly justify their moves. Obviously we'll recognise user names and stuff, but if it's a simple change then I think it would be worth it.
Author:  Alguien [ Tue Sep 11, 2012 2:32 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Lifein19x19 as a player
Splatted wrote:
Is there any way for ranks to be hidden when posting in a particular sub-forum? I think it would be a lot easier for weaker players to participate if it isn't so obvious that we're trying to contradict a 6d, and it would encourage the stronger players to clearly justify their moves. Obviously we'll recognise user names and stuff, but if it's a simple change then I think it would be worth it.


It would be separated anyway. You can contradict or agree with a 6d in a discussion thread about the move or you can even create your own thread about how you think the game should go.

Eventually, the stone placer will make the move only by counting the voting thread, and I don't think anyone else will be reading that one, taking into account it's just a succession of post like: "B4", "B4", "C3", "B4", "C3", "R10", ...
Author:  Tooveli [ Tue Sep 11, 2012 3:40 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Lifein19x19 as a player
Maybe it makes sense for votes to be hidden. It probably doesn't change much but it might help encourage discussion.

How strong a player will the opponent be? It's very hard to judge how strong the collective will be. Maybe a stone or two weaker than the average rank of the most active participators. Either way the stronger the opponent the more interesting the game will be.
Author:  Alguien [ Tue Sep 11, 2012 3:56 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Lifein19x19 as a player
Tooveli wrote:
Maybe it makes sense for votes to be hidden. It probably doesn't change much but it might help encourage discussion.

How strong a player will the opponent be? It's very hard to judge how strong the collective will be. Maybe a stone or two weaker than the average rank of the most active participators. Either way the stronger the opponent the more interesting the game will be.


It's hard to hide the votes. It might encourage discussion but it brings many organizational problems of the kind that can kill this kind of ideas.

I have no idea of LifeIn19x19's strength. I think it will be closer to the top participating players, because whenever the players are about to make a blunder he could come in and just comment "be careful with this scenario".

Just imagine someone like MagicWand adding a diagram about the expected future. Even if he does it every several moves it would surely raise the combined player to mid dan.

Life & death? Once a strong player shows you the path, even the hardest tsumego becomes "obvious".
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