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The Driving Force
http://www.lifein19x19.com/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=704		 Page 1 of 2
Author:  Kirby [ Mon May 31, 2010 6:27 pm ]
Post subject:  The Driving Force
A lot of people aspire to become stronger at go. If this describes you, what drives you? What makes you want to become stronger?
Author:  kokomi [ Mon May 31, 2010 6:49 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: The Driving Force
beat more people.
Author:  Marcus [ Mon May 31, 2010 6:53 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: The Driving Force
Because I know I can do better.
Because I continue to uncover new ideas to explore.
Because I can teach more as I learn more.
Because there is a community that I feel I'm a part of, supporting my growth and rooting for my success.

There's more, but those are the four that really hit home for me.
Author:  mohsart [ Mon May 31, 2010 7:40 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: The Driving Force
Become good enough to understand the comments from a pro or a high dan amateur.
To be able to play in the top group of a tournament more often than once every five years.
To maybe in a far future be able to win a tournament.
If possible once in my life be able to represent Sweden in a event such as WAGC, KPMC, or WMSG.

/Mats
Author:  Dusk Eagle [ Mon May 31, 2010 8:13 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: The Driving Force
I play because I want to learn more. I really like to learn new things, period. If I was no longer able to learn anything about Go I would probably stop playing and move on to something else.

I also am a huge competitive freak. For almost every game that I play, I want to be better at it than everybody else that I know, and I will work at it until I am. If I do not feel like putting the effort into a particular game to get stronger than all my friends and family at it, I will not even bother to play it. More than half the fun is in the getting stronger.
Author:  tj86430 [ Mon May 31, 2010 11:07 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: The Driving Force
I'm a very competitive person. I want to be best in what I do, and the only way to get there is to become better (of course I realise that I won't be absolutely best in anything, but you get the drift). When I feel I don't develop (fast enough) any more, I tend to switch to another hobby. (The only exception so far is golf, I know I peaked over ten years ago, and now I just play for pleasure. Naturally I enjoy my rare good rounds, but I no longer throw my clubs after bad shots.)
Author:  Tyson2011 [ Mon May 31, 2010 11:09 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: The Driving Force
i was chasing after someone..but i've lost contact with them :(...so i really dont have a driving force anymore, i just like to play go and want to get better :)
Author:  Solomon [ Mon May 31, 2010 11:31 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: The Driving Force
Because I want to dig deeper into the mysteries of Go.
Author:  Shentar [ Tue Jun 01, 2010 1:20 am ]
Post subject:  Re: The Driving Force
I strive to become better simply because it is worthwhile.

My hobbies are rather limited. Video games, anime/manga, taichi, and go. It would be truthful to say that taichi and go are the only of my hobbies that I stand to gain any real benefit from improving in. But it goes beyond that.

I have had many different reasons for wanting to improve, but only recently have I had a truly meaningful reason. 9 months ago, I became a KGS 8 kyu, and hit my first plateau. Around that time I began to feel as though I was missing something. Something fundamentally basic, that all my studying couldn't touch. All this time I have felt as though it is right in front of me, like I could reach out and grab it. But always, it was just out of reach. Recently a series of events brought the it closer than ever, and it was taichi that finally brought it within grasp.

Thursday of last week, when practicing taichi, I was finally able to reach a state of meditative calm. Afterward, before the calm faded, I came to a realization. As a KGS 6 kyu, I still do not know how to play go. When I play, everything is simply instinct, and I only read when a life and death situation arises. My heart races, and sometimes I even break into a sweat. It feels like I'm playing a blitz game in slo-mo. However, go is a game that pits two minds against each other. Adrenaline has no place in it. I now see that the real way to play go is with a truly calm mind. Only then will I be capable of the kind of reading, counting, and planning that is required to see real improvement.

This may be difficult to accomplish, but I believe that in time, the act of playing go itself may become as a form of meditation. If I can improve in this way, then I will without a doubt see improvement in other areas of my life, as well. And with this in sight, it is possibly the most worthwhile thing I can do with my time.
Author:  topazg [ Tue Jun 01, 2010 1:35 am ]
Post subject:  Re: The Driving Force
I like playing the game, I like opening my mind to new ideas and possibilities, I like the people, I like tournaments.

Doing well at it is a complete aside, with all that ^ what is there not to enjoy?
Author:  Aphelion [ Tue Jun 01, 2010 1:46 am ]
Post subject:  Re: The Driving Force
You know the scenes in Hikaru no Go where the losing player is staring at the position, sweating bullets and clenching his stones, and after a long while finally admits in a tortured gasp: "I have nothing" ?

I want everyone I play to be like that.
Author:  kirkmc [ Tue Jun 01, 2010 1:52 am ]
Post subject:  Re: The Driving Force
Shentar wrote:

This may be difficult to accomplish, but I believe that in time, the act of playing go itself may become as a form of meditation. If I can improve in this way, then I will without a doubt see improvement in other areas of my life, as well. And with this in sight, it is possibly the most worthwhile thing I can do with my time.


Seconded. I find that a long, slow game of reflective go is a form of meditation. I play only on KGS, but I have a couple of friends with whom I play slow games on boards (we each play on our boards, and input the moves on KGS). These games usually take 60-90 minutes, and during them I find I am totally absorbed.

This is, of course, not the same as real meditation (which I practice irregularly), but it's pretty close.
Author:  CarlJung [ Tue Jun 01, 2010 2:24 am ]
Post subject:  Re: The Driving Force
Shentar wrote:
I strive to become better simply because it is worthwhile.

My hobbies are rather limited. Video games, anime/manga, taichi, and go. It would be truthful to say that taichi and go are the only of my hobbies that I stand to gain any real benefit from improving in. But it goes beyond that.

I have had many different reasons for wanting to improve, but only recently have I had a truly meaningful reason. 9 months ago, I became a KGS 8 kyu, and hit my first plateau. Around that time I began to feel as though I was missing something. Something fundamentally basic, that all my studying couldn't touch. All this time I have felt as though it is right in front of me, like I could reach out and grab it. But always, it was just out of reach. Recently a series of events brought the it closer than ever, and it was taichi that finally brought it within grasp.

Thursday of last week, when practicing taichi, I was finally able to reach a state of meditative calm. Afterward, before the calm faded, I came to a realization. As a KGS 6 kyu, I still do not know how to play go. When I play, everything is simply instinct, and I only read when a life and death situation arises. My heart races, and sometimes I even break into a sweat. It feels like I'm playing a blitz game in slo-mo. However, go is a game that pits two minds against each other. Adrenaline has no place in it. I now see that the real way to play go is with a truly calm mind. Only then will I be capable of the kind of reading, counting, and planning that is required to see real improvement.

This may be difficult to accomplish, but I believe that in time, the act of playing go itself may become as a form of meditation. If I can improve in this way, then I will without a doubt see improvement in other areas of my life, as well. And with this in sight, it is possibly the most worthwhile thing I can do with my time.


First, I believe this racing heart and sweating is pretty common when starting playing go. The mind and body hasn't really learned to recruit the "right" bodily resopnses and discard those that isn't conductive to the task at hand. As you get more experience this diminishes. I don't think it's related to strength though, just time playing go.

Secondly, I'm hesitant to think that go, as a form of meditation, has any merits that can't be done better with "regular" meditation.

(cue the hair splitting about what meditation really is)
Author:  kirkmc [ Tue Jun 01, 2010 2:29 am ]
Post subject:  Re: The Driving Force
CarlJung wrote:
Shentar wrote:

Secondly, I'm hesitant to think that go, as a form of meditation, has any merits that can't be done better with "regular" meditation.


I totally agree. However, it is a form of active meditation, as opposed to sitting meditation.
Author:  Phelan [ Tue Jun 01, 2010 2:43 am ]
Post subject:  Re: The Driving Force
I want to beat my rival. I want to be on a competitive level with the best players of my country and have a chance to go to the international competitions like them. I want to get to a level where I feel comfortable teaching higher than 20 kyus.
And I also want to be able to understand some of those pro games without extensive and/or clear commentary, not just pretend to myself that I do.

Someday I will.
Author:  SoDesuNe [ Tue Jun 01, 2010 4:17 am ]
Post subject:  Re: The Driving Force
It's the search for the Invisible Tesuji - a metaphor for playing great moves, no one saw or could imagine.

And presenting my country at the WAGC will be great aswell - one day =)
Author:  CnP [ Tue Jun 01, 2010 4:53 am ]
Post subject:  Re: The Driving Force
Because its interesting and the better I get the more I like it.

edit: and I'm also very competitive
Author:  palapiku [ Tue Jun 01, 2010 10:29 am ]
Post subject:  Re: The Driving Force
I want to get better at Go because I'm really bad right now and it's just embarrassing to be so bad at something you do and not try to improve.
Author:  Shentar [ Tue Jun 01, 2010 11:06 am ]
Post subject:  Re: The Driving Force
CarlJung wrote:
Secondly, I'm hesitant to think that go, as a form of meditation, has any merits that can't be done better with "regular" meditation.


I won't argue with that. However, taking an activity that is nerve-racking and turning it into something calm will have some meditative qualities. Also, being that I am a fairly high-strung person, it may even be necessary to incorporate meditation into the act of playing go. Proper meditation as a pre-game ritual, and 'quick' meditation during the game to slow me down and keep me relaxed.

This, however, presents a bit of a problem for me. The only form of meditation that has ever seemed to work for me is taichi (borrowing breathing practices from qigong so that it is more meditative). I feel like I should learn to perform sitting meditation, as it is closer to the state in which I play go. For now I will try to practice taichi before playing, but I'm afraid that the act of stopping and switching to a seated position to play may affect the calm more than I would like.
Author:  Sverre [ Tue Jun 01, 2010 11:35 am ]
Post subject:  Re: The Driving Force
Kirby wrote:
A lot of people aspire to become stronger at go. If this describes you, what drives you? What makes you want to become stronger?


I want to make fewer stupid mistakes, because feeling like an idiot because I miss the obvious reduces my enjoyment of the game.

I'd like to understand more about how the game works, because I hate losing and not knowing why.

I want to feel that I am improving because the process of improving is enjoyable in itself.

I want the game to continue to be challenging to me in new and different ways in the future. Learning the answers to the questions I have now will let me pose new questions later.
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