Life In 19x19
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Feeling Rushed
http://www.lifein19x19.com/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=7372		 Page 1 of 3
Author:  Kirby [ Wed Dec 05, 2012 9:04 pm ]
Post subject:  Feeling Rushed
Usually when I play go, I feel a bit rushed to bring the game to an end state. I lack patience to play the game calmly. I want to see the result. If I am ahead, I want to force the game to a close.

Any diagnosis for these symptoms? I'd like to play calmly and thoughtfully throughout the entire game... At least I think I'd like that - sounds like a good idea, I mean...
Author:  Phoenix [ Wed Dec 05, 2012 10:20 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Feeling Rushed
Especially playing online, it's hard not to feel rushed. And there's certainly a tendency to just slap stones down wherever it seems good to do so, without reading much or considering the whole board.

Especially when you're trying to climb up ranks and your opponents keep trying to invade late in the endgame when you're ahead 200+ points. Or try some very obvious trap and hope you suddenly lost your ability to count liberties. :grumpy:

Funny thing is, when I look at my clock at the end of fast games, I have a whole bunch of time left. I look at that and then think of the mistakes I made, and how much I know compared to how scrappy my Go was.

Part of the solution, I think, is to develop a sense for how much time you have to spend. Don't look at the clock as it goes down, but do look at it once you've 'taken time' to think for a while. And definitely look at your leftover time at the end.

Then, read. Simple as that. Think about what you want to do and let your mind wander over the board and pick spots where you think a sequence could help you out with your goal. Then take the time to read it out. The reason strong players don't seem rushed (IRL anyway) is that they use their time to the best of their abilities, and polish off their mistakes through thinking through each and every move.

As a last note, the idea behind trying to 'rush the game' when you're ahead is a good one. Think more about skipping over possible complications rather than skipping over the burden of thinking and reading. ;-)
Author:  RobertJasiek [ Wed Dec 05, 2012 10:30 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Feeling Rushed
You are already offering the diagnosis of the symptoms:) But what about the causes? I share your experience, but controlling and avoiding the causes is not so easy. It is about the old and hard matter of controlling one's psychology and is related to avoiding blunders.
Author:  Phoenix [ Wed Dec 05, 2012 11:23 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Feeling Rushed
RobertJasiek wrote:
You are already offering the diagnosis of the symptoms:) But what about the causes? I share your experience, but controlling and avoiding the causes is not so easy. It is about the old and hard matter of controlling one's psychology and is related to avoiding blunders.


Where do you see a diagnosis?

I'm only offering ideas. I could certainly attempt to draw Kirby into some sort psychoanalysis and trace the roots of the problems, but getting a good sense for using your time wisely and reading more can hardly be harmful advice. Neither can, especially when it regards Go, trying something new. :D

If my ideas don't solve the issue, he'll have to try something different. No loss. ;-)
Author:  snorri [ Thu Dec 06, 2012 12:18 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Feeling Rushed
Sometimes in my reviews, my teacher points something and says, "you missed a chance to end the game early." So I don't think it's bad to try that if you truly have the chance. There is a risk of playing a drawn-out game, too, because fatigue may cause blunders in a long endgame. There are times I fear I don't have the "clutch" for that.
Author:  RobertJasiek [ Thu Dec 06, 2012 1:12 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Feeling Rushed
Phoenix wrote:
Where do you see a diagnosis?


My reply was to Kirby's message:)
Author:  topazg [ Thu Dec 06, 2012 2:21 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Feeling Rushed
EDIT: This is assuming time controls like 25 or 30 minutes + 5x0:30 or 5x0:40

One habit that I've started trying to apply (and recommended to others), is don't allow yourself to hit move 100 without reaching byo-yomi (obviously don't spend that time making coffees or reading a book, but reading things you'd like to do after the local sequences, or read more variations of local sequences that weren't your first choice).

Once there, don't allow yourself to play a move until you have less than 10 seconds on the clock. If you picked your move in the first 2 or 3 seconds because it was obvious (like an atari on a 20 stone group), spend that time reading other areas of the board.

I've found two positives from this: 1) I get much happier at playing with time pressure. Once it starts to become habit to keep an eye on the clock getting low but still not moving until you've spent the time looking elsewhere, the pressure of "need to move quickly, my time is running low" mostly disappears. 2) Less stupid blunders and "damn, that was my move, how did you get to play there first" moments.
Author:  daal [ Thu Dec 06, 2012 2:40 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Feeling Rushed
Nice idea topazg. I tried it, and within minutes, I had my first escaper in months. :p

edit: Tried it again, and though I failed to stick to your guidelines, I played one of the most fun games in months. Thanks!
Author:  phrax [ Thu Dec 06, 2012 8:33 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Feeling Rushed
It sounds like you are more concerned about the destination (outcome) than the journey. You could either stop to smell the roses along the way or figure out a way to make the journey more exciting. Maybe you need bigger adrenalin-inducing fights :)

In some ways its like rank-obsession. It shouldn't be about the rank, but about the single games you play. Or the corollary, it shouldn't be about the game result, but about the single moves/exchanges you play.
Author:  Phoenix [ Thu Dec 06, 2012 9:45 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Feeling Rushed
RobertJasiek wrote:
Phoenix wrote:
Where do you see a diagnosis?

My reply was to Kirby's message:)


Noted. ;-)

snorri wrote:
Sometimes in my reviews, my teacher points something and says, "you missed a chance to end the game early." So I don't think it's bad to try that if you truly have the chance. There is a risk of playing a drawn-out game, too, because fatigue may cause blunders in a long endgame. There are times I fear I don't have the "clutch" for that.


It's much the same in other games as well as in sports.

In badminton and especially martial arts, it's considered higher-level tactics to find the right timing and then end it. It's almost always worth the risk of missing through less-than-perfect technique and timing than it is to let your previous work go to waste.

Then there's a level where your opponent may be lying in wait and fake a chance to draw you in for the kill. But let's not go into that. :D

In Go, even though we amateurs often mess up along the road to victory, and although our judgement of the position might be flawed, it's good attitude to go for the win as soon as you think it's feasible. This may mean killing a large group, or it may mean grabbing a respectable lead and leading the game into the endgame rapidly.
Author:  Magicwand [ Thu Dec 06, 2012 11:54 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Feeling Rushed
Kirby:
It is because you aim at wrong end state.
Your end state should be maintaining balance.
which i am sure you try
Author:  Phoenix [ Thu Dec 06, 2012 12:28 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Feeling Rushed
Magicwand wrote:
Your end state should be maintaining balance.


Magicwand, you talk a lot about 'maintaining balance', and balance in general. It crops up in a lot of the posts I've seen, and I'm not sure if you have in the past, but could you elaborate?

I understand 'balance' in terms of balance of high and low moves, territory and power, definite gain and aji. Is this what you mean, or something more like matching your opponent's pace or level of caution or aims?

I'd love to pick your brain. :mrgreen:
Author:  RobertJasiek [ Thu Dec 06, 2012 2:47 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Feeling Rushed
Indefinite usage of maintaining balance can refer to everything, but don't forget balance of territory count. OC, it does not want to suggest "If you are clearly ahead, ensure a close game!":)
Author:  Magicwand [ Thu Dec 06, 2012 3:22 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Feeling Rushed
Phoenix wrote:
Magicwand wrote:
Your end state should be maintaining balance.


Magicwand, you talk a lot about 'maintaining balance', and balance in general. It crops up in a lot of the posts I've seen, and I'm not sure if you have in the past, but could you elaborate?

I understand 'balance' in terms of balance of high and low moves, territory and power, definite gain and aji. Is this what you mean, or something more like matching your opponent's pace or level of caution or aims?

I'd love to pick your brain. :mrgreen:

Point to influence balance.
If you let your opponent have points you will have that much influence. So balance is maintened. So don't need to fight for points but play like water.
Water will flow around obsticals and build power to inundate everything in its path later.
Author:  RobertJasiek [ Thu Dec 06, 2012 3:31 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Feeling Rushed
Magicwand wrote:
If you let your opponent have points you will have that much influence.


That much or more or less. While I have shown for josekis how to assess territory - influence balance, for other middle game applications that balance is still unclear: when is it given - when is a player favourable because that balance is missing?

Quote:
play like water.


What does this mean?

Quote:
Water will flow around obsticals and build power to inundate everything in its path later.


What does this mean?

I have heard of the water metaphor before (e.g., from Saijo) but never heard of any explanation, especially none that could be applied.

How do you assess that water is flowing or that, in general, balance is (or is not!) given?
Author:  Phoenix [ Thu Dec 06, 2012 4:24 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Feeling Rushed
I wonder if this water metaphor is about the natural 'flow' of the game.

Something like "Keep playing naturally and your influence will naturally build better results for you over time"?

As a side note, I've been ditching solid territory for superior influence recently. It's done wonders against weaker players, but I fall apart against stronger ones. :lol:
Author:  logan [ Thu Dec 06, 2012 6:59 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Feeling Rushed
Yes, many good advices here.

Play offline or don't play more than 2-3 games in a row. Focus on creating balance in game. Try to develop style that focus on longterm win and/or study players with quieter/patient style, such as Takagawa Kaku, younger Lee Changho, Otake Hideo, Qiu Jun & Park Yeong-hun. Learn to be comfortable being behind until endgame. Focus more on winning during endgame. Increase endgame problem study. Or set clock-timer goals.

Phoenix wrote:
As a side note, I've been ditching solid territory for superior influence recently. It's done wonders against weaker players, but I fall apart against stronger ones. :lol:
Good for you : )

Yes, because by the time you reach such stronger players they will know how to counter influence, so then finding balance and being flexible becomes even more important.

This game by Takemiya sensei is one of his masterpieces. He of course goes for influence, but when his opponent tries to deny him this, then his flexible and deep strength truly emerges. Top/right exchange, then fighting that begins on left are highlights of the game. White 42 is grand move.


Another masterpiece example is of Takagawa Kaku. He was famous for saying, "Flowing water does not fight what lies ahead." In this game, you can see how Sakata tries to upset Takagawa's stones repeatedly, but Takagawa quashes his attempts each time moving continuously into different parts of the board, like "flowing water."


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Author:  RobertJasiek [ Thu Dec 06, 2012 11:09 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Feeling Rushed
Phoenix wrote:
I wonder if this water metaphor is about the natural 'flow' of the game.


Maybe, but what is "natural flow"?

Quote:
Keep playing naturally


What does this mean?

***

Of course, I have my guess: "Always play the move having the greatest per move value." However, is this what "following the flow of the water" and "following the natural flow" mean?
Author:  RobertJasiek [ Thu Dec 06, 2012 11:11 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Feeling Rushed
logan wrote:
moving continuously into different parts of the board, like "flowing water."


So you'd say that "flowing like water" is nothing more than "tenuki"?
Author:  skydyr [ Fri Dec 07, 2012 7:28 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Feeling Rushed
RobertJasiek wrote:
logan wrote:
moving continuously into different parts of the board, like "flowing water."


So you'd say that "flowing like water" is nothing more than "tenuki"?


I think it might have to do more with recognizing and maintaining miai for your groups, and having all your stones working on the same plan. A sort of "he prevents me from making points here, but the consequence is that I can make more there, so I can take it easy."
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