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White 2 Kakari
http://www.lifein19x19.com/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=7598		 Page 1 of 1
Author:  Annihilist [ Mon Jan 07, 2013 7:04 pm ]
Post subject:  White 2 Kakari
I played this game just now where I experimented with a kakari for :w2:.



I think I did alright. What do other, more experienced players think of this technique?
Author:  Twitchy Go [ Mon Jan 07, 2013 7:32 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: White 2 Kakari
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$c A basic pattern of shusaku fuseki
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . 2 . . . . . . . . . . 4 . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , 1 . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 7 . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 6 . . |
$$ | . . 5 , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 3 . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

This doesn't pertain strictly to your game but it's something that struck me as interesting. Black ended up setting up a old fuseki( :b1: :b3: :b5: ) that was named after Honinbo Shusaku.(He was a bit of a beast as black. :b7: is a famous move of his.)

There is a senseis page but the idea for whites approach was that giving black an enclosure that allowed for a pincer-extentsion combo move was too good. It has since become less popular as komi was introduced and white didn't have to play so aggressively.

A few comment on your game.
:w6: feels slow to me. I don't know if it could be considered a mistake though. Here is my rational:
A 4-4 point is stable since one move can't deny it's perfect direction. This is why approaching a 3-4, 5-3,5-4 point is considered more urgent. They do have a primary direction and it can be denied in one move. However once a second move is played near one of these three points which player played first in the corner is indistinguishable. Therefore you can consider the bottom left corner to be in a steady state and approach another corner. This could just be a stylistic choice as white, but just my 2c.

Personally I'm tempted by P16, it works well with :w4: which was a good move. I consider a first move approach to be something of a probe. The important skill to have in order to succeed is to be able to play a flexible array of opening moves based on how it is responded to.
Author:  EdLee [ Tue Jan 08, 2013 1:25 am ]
Post subject: 
Both B and W made many mistakes, had many basics problems.
Both B and W helped each other tremendously.
The game result had nothing to do with :w2:.
In other words, there is no problem with :w2:, and it's perfectly fine to experiment with it to gain experience,
but 100% of both B and W's problems lies in the basics, which is where you want to focus, if you want to improve,
and not with things like :w2:.
Author:  Annihilist [ Tue Jan 08, 2013 1:35 am ]
Post subject:  Re:
EdLee wrote:
Both B and W made many mistakes, had many basics problems.
Both B and W helped each other tremendously.
The game result had nothing to do with :w2:.
In other words, there is no problem with :w2:, and it's perfectly fine to experiment with it to gain experience,
but 100% of both B and W's problems lies in the basics, which is where you want to focus, if you want to improve,
and not with things like :w2:
Thanks for the review. Although I was mostly asking about things like :w2:, and other people's experiences with such techniques. Thanks anyhow, quite helpful.
Author:  EdLee [ Tue Jan 08, 2013 1:38 am ]
Post subject: 
Annihilist wrote:
Although I was mostly asking about things like :w2:, and other people's experiences with such techniques. Thanks anyhow, quite helpful.
You're welcome. :w2: is great fun. Continue to experiment with tenuki. :)
Author:  Unusedname [ Tue Jan 08, 2013 2:43 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Re:
I don't really like the idea of :W2:

If anything I wanted to try experimenting with the opposite.

Always ignoring my opponents first approach.

Since one of the main benefits of starting in the corner is the ease of surviving.

but personally when i'm approached with 2 I still respond and let my opponent get the open corner as if we played normally. (Assuming he ends in sente)
Author:  topazg [ Tue Jan 08, 2013 2:54 am ]
Post subject:  Re: White 2 Kakari
I think there's nothing wrong with :w2: ... go the whole hog and approach immediately every time Black takes a corner if you like (with :w2: , :w4: , :w6: and :w8: potentially). As Ed says, it had no impact on the final result of the game at all, so it's fun to experiment with.
Author:  ez4u [ Tue Jan 08, 2013 3:46 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Re:
Annihilist wrote:
EdLee wrote:
Both B and W made many mistakes, had many basics problems.
Both B and W helped each other tremendously.
The game result had nothing to do with :w2:.
In other words, there is no problem with :w2:, and it's perfectly fine to experiment with it to gain experience,
but 100% of both B and W's problems lies in the basics, which is where you want to focus, if you want to improve,
and not with things like :w2:
Thanks for the review. Although I was mostly asking about things like :w2:, and other people's experiences with such techniques. Thanks anyhow, quite helpful.

If you want some comment on :w2:, you should explain the thinking behind choosing it in your game. What did you expect the result to be? If you want other people's experience with it, start with pro games.
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