Life In 19x19 :: Slow games

What's the easiest way to play slower-paced real time games? It feels like fast-paced go is much more popular both in clubs and online. I always hit byo-yomi by the halfway point when I automatch on KGS medium speed, and at that point I read and think too slowly to actually evaluate the moves I'm making. To me thinking about a long-term strategy and tactics to serve it is the fun part, so when I ruin my position by making moves I didn't have time to evaluate for the second half of the game I don't even enjoy playing.

Turn-based feels too far on the other end of the spectrum with games taking months, "analysis paralysis", and no limits on how much of your day you can spend thinking. I like sitting down to play and finish a single game, I just don't like running out of time to think.

Anyway, is there such a thing as a server where slower games are popular? I'm maybe 6k or weaker if that affects anything.

IGS players cannot escape (after the initial moves).

I always hit byo-yomi by the halfway point when I automatch on KGS medium speed, and at that point I read and think too slowly to actually evaluate the moves I'm making.

EdLee wrote:

IGS players cannot escape (after the initial moves).

sure they can

If they don't come back to the game within 5 minutes, they lose.

And they've still escaped.

Not to me; it has the same result as if they had resigned the rated game, so to me they have resigned.
On KGS, the "occasional" (not chronic) escaper gets away with the escape.

In my opinion that seems like an escape to me, but it's all in the viewpoint.

So on IGS, Tygem, Cyberoro, etc. I consider they cannot escape without getting a loss.

Ed, they escaped having to play you. They are an escaper.

Sure, they got a loss, but you also got a win you didn't earn. It seems everyone is penalized.

It seems to me that if you leave a game because you are losing, and you are aware this will count a loss, escaping is exactly the same as resigning except not as polite. Saying that the win wasn't deserved is like saying that all wins by resignation are not deserved. "Escaping" is as much an admission of defeat as a formal resignation.

Author:	konfuzed [ Sun Jan 20, 2013 12:11 am ]
Post subject:	Slow games
What's the easiest way to play slower-paced real time games? It feels like fast-paced go is much more popular both in clubs and online. I always hit byo-yomi by the halfway point when I automatch on KGS medium speed, and at that point I read and think too slowly to actually evaluate the moves I'm making. To me thinking about a long-term strategy and tactics to serve it is the fun part, so when I ruin my position by making moves I didn't have time to evaluate for the second half of the game I don't even enjoy playing. Turn-based feels too far on the other end of the spectrum with games taking months, "analysis paralysis", and no limits on how much of your day you can spend thinking. I like sitting down to play and finish a single game, I just don't like running out of time to think. Anyway, is there such a thing as a server where slower games are popular? I'm maybe 6k or weaker if that affects anything.

Author:	EdLee [ Sun Jan 20, 2013 12:35 am ]
Post subject:
My time setting is Canadian 1 min. + 20 moves / 30 mins. I use this same time setting on both KGS and IGS. Most likely you would not play any more slowly than that. Some KGS players escape; IGS players cannot escape (after the initial moves). I have no problem getting rated games with this setting on IGS. On KGS, sometimes I have to wait longer, but eventually I can get a rated game. So the easiest way is set a slow time setting and play on IGS and KGS -- just do it.

Author:	konfuzed [ Sun Jan 20, 2013 12:51 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Slow games
Thanks, maybe I'll try IGS, never used it before. I don't like handicap games much either; so picky

Author:	Phelan [ Sun Jan 20, 2013 4:58 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Slow games
konfuzed wrote: What's the easiest way to play slower-paced real time games? It feels like fast-paced go is much more popular both in clubs and online. I always hit byo-yomi by the halfway point when I automatch on KGS medium speed, and at that point I read and think too slowly to actually evaluate the moves I'm making. To me thinking about a long-term strategy and tactics to serve it is the fun part, so when I ruin my position by making moves I didn't have time to evaluate for the second half of the game I don't even enjoy playing. Turn-based feels too far on the other end of the spectrum with games taking months, "analysis paralysis", and no limits on how much of your day you can spend thinking. I like sitting down to play and finish a single game, I just don't like running out of time to think. Anyway, is there such a thing as a server where slower games are popular? I'm maybe 6k or weaker if that affects anything. I can't really make any recommendations, then, since my perfect time limit is KGS's automatch medium. Never ran out of time, and rarely have a lot of time left if the game goes to endgame. I'd experiment either increasing the time limit until you're comfortable (likely the byo-yomi settings, since that would give you more time per move). If you want to improve your skill at playing faster, however, I'd recommend what I did: force myself to play blitz, or very fast settings, and try to do my best during the game, and never timeout. I used to lose on time a lot, and that practice helped me to be much better at managing my time.

Author:	Phelan [ Sun Jan 20, 2013 5:01 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Slow games
I also recommend Canadian overtime, since I feel it allows you to take your time with some moves, and play faster on others that don't require as much time. Others have recommended Fischer time to me, saying it's better than Canadian, but I haven't really tried it. I think so far, Kaya.gs is the only place you can try Fischer, but I can be wrong.

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Slow games http://www.lifein19x19.com/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=7688	Page 1 of 2

Author:	xed_over [ Sun Jan 20, 2013 5:25 am ]
Post subject:	Re:
EdLee wrote: IGS players cannot escape (after the initial moves). sure they can

Author:	daal [ Sun Jan 20, 2013 7:31 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Slow games
konfuzed wrote: I always hit byo-yomi by the halfway point when I automatch on KGS medium speed, and at that point I read and think too slowly to actually evaluate the moves I'm making. Me too. It makes me wonder why KGS has automatch settings for blitz, fast and medium games, but not for slow.

Author:	Uberdude [ Sun Jan 20, 2013 7:36 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Slow games
I used to play 1 hour main time games on KGS, it just took a bit longer to get a game.

Author:	EdLee [ Sun Jan 20, 2013 2:43 pm ]
Post subject:
xed_over wrote: EdLee wrote: IGS players cannot escape (after the initial moves). sure they can If they don't come back to the game within 5 minutes, they lose.

Author:	oren [ Sun Jan 20, 2013 3:03 pm ]
Post subject:	Re:
EdLee wrote: If they don't come back to the game within 5 minutes, they lose. And they've still escaped.

Author:	EdLee [ Sun Jan 20, 2013 3:11 pm ]
Post subject:
oren wrote: And they've still escaped. Not to me; it has the same result as if they had resigned the rated game, so to me (and to IGS) they have resigned. On KGS, the "occasional" (not chronic) escaper gets away with the escape (to KGS they have not resigned).

Author:	oren [ Sun Jan 20, 2013 3:12 pm ]
Post subject:	Re:
EdLee wrote: Not to me; it has the same result as if they had resigned the rated game, so to me they have resigned. On KGS, the "occasional" (not chronic) escaper gets away with the escape. I see. In my opinion that seems like an escape to me, but it's all in the viewpoint.

Author:	Annihilist [ Sun Jan 20, 2013 3:19 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Slow games
konfuzed wrote: What's the easiest way to play slower-paced real time games? It feels like fast-paced go is much more popular both in clubs and online. I always hit byo-yomi by the halfway point when I automatch on KGS medium speed, and at that point I read and think too slowly to actually evaluate the moves I'm making. To me thinking about a long-term strategy and tactics to serve it is the fun part, so when I ruin my position by making moves I didn't have time to evaluate for the second half of the game I don't even enjoy playing. Turn-based feels too far on the other end of the spectrum with games taking months, "analysis paralysis", and no limits on how much of your day you can spend thinking. I like sitting down to play and finish a single game, I just don't like running out of time to think. Anyway, is there such a thing as a server where slower games are popular? I'm maybe 6k or weaker if that affects anything. I am exactly the same. I set my ranked games on KGS to 45 minutes (compromise) but I still run out of time. I also don't like handicap games much. What's the point of playing games if you can't even think about your moves properly? Slower games are always better.

Author:	EdLee [ Sun Jan 20, 2013 3:20 pm ]
Post subject:
oren wrote: In my opinion that seems like an escape to me, but it's all in the viewpoint. I agree. It's all in the viewpoint. In principle, we don't know if they have escaped or have a bad connection; but in practice, most of the time they escape when losing, so we know it is an escape -- some servers (IGS, Tygem, Cyberoro) award an official loss to the escaper; and KGS only marks the user without awarding the loss (unless it becomes chronic). So on IGS, Tygem, Cyberoro, etc. I consider they cannot escape without getting a loss.

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Author:	xed_over [ Sun Jan 20, 2013 3:48 pm ]
Post subject:	Re:
EdLee wrote: So on IGS, Tygem, Cyberoro, etc. I consider they cannot escape without getting a loss. You seem to have associated the word "escape" to not losing. It doesn't mean that at all. It simply means they've left the game unexpectedly.

Author:	oren [ Sun Jan 20, 2013 3:50 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Slow games
Ed, they escaped having to play you. They are an escaper. Sure, they got a loss, but you also got a win you didn't earn. It seems everyone is penalized.

Author:	EdLee [ Sun Jan 20, 2013 4:04 pm ]
Post subject:
xed_over, oren: I know exactly what all these terms mean and the ramifications on the servers. In fact, we all know that. Escaping policies have been a perennial discussion forever on Go forums. Anyway, to me, non-chronic escapers can escape on KGS; IGS escapers get a loss. (Of course, anybody can escape at any time in any situation -- you can have a heart attack -- so that's a tautology. )

Author:	DJLLAP [ Sun Jan 20, 2013 4:14 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Slow games
oren wrote: Ed, they escaped having to play you. They are an escaper. Sure, they got a loss, but you also got a win you didn't earn. It seems everyone is penalized. It seems to me that if you leave a game because you are losing, and you are aware this will count a loss, escaping is exactly the same as resigning except not as polite. Saying that the win wasn't deserved is like saying that all wins by resignation are not deserved. "Escaping" is as much an admission of defeat as a formal resignation.

Author:	oren [ Sun Jan 20, 2013 4:31 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Slow games
DJLLAP wrote: It seems to me that if you leave a game because you are losing, and you are aware this will count a loss, escaping is exactly the same as resigning except not as polite. Saying that the win wasn't deserved is like saying that all wins by resignation are not deserved. "Escaping" is as much an admission of defeat as a formal resignation. He has stated earlier that people are escaping the game after noticing the time limits. This is not a loss on the board that people are escaping from but game conditions.

Author:	Phelan [ Sun Jan 20, 2013 6:11 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Slow games
While this is an interesting discussion that is completely novel to these boards, I still wonder if "How to find slow games" is not a more appropriate theme for the thread.