I'm 3d in fast games, 3p in slow
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| How different are the time skills http://www.lifein19x19.com/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=7967 |
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| Author: | SmoothOper [ Mon Feb 25, 2013 4:08 pm ] |
| Post subject: | How different are the time skills |
If go we're in the Olympics as a sport, would there be a gold metal for each of the different time constraints? It makes sense to me to say that, a person is a nine Dan with a three hour time limit but only a six or seven with an hour time limit, or vice versa, though there doesn't seem to be this distinction, except maybe in the ethnic tradition that one subscribes too. Perhaps the general culture isn't broad enough to support the distinction, but in a modern setting, it seems that there may be Chinese and Koreans that would prefer longer times and Japanese that prefer shorter. |
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| Author: | Uberdude [ Mon Feb 25, 2013 5:08 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: How different are the time skills |
I'm 3d in fast games, 3p in slow
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| Author: | OtakuViking [ Mon Feb 25, 2013 5:56 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: How different are the time skills |
I think it doesn't matter, because your opponent also has less time to think 
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| Author: | Charlie [ Tue Feb 26, 2013 12:30 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: How different are the time skills |
Time definitely affects your game. Without sufficient time, I cannot count so I play too aggressively, I cannot predict my opponents strategy so I play the wrong direction and I can't double-check life-and-death situations so I instinctively hane or throw stones at vital points and get the move-order wrong. |
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| Author: | Grisalger [ Tue Feb 26, 2013 2:24 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: How different are the time skills |
OtakuViking wrote: I think it doesn't matter, because your opponent also has less time to think But it may affect you differently. For example, some players panic when in byo-yomi, while others don't have the same problem with playing fast, and some always play very quickly anyway. I am bad at handling byo-yomi, but I almost never get there in serious games, so it doesn't matter if I can't handle it. But it is clear that relative playing strenght depends on the time limits. |
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| Author: | SmoothOper [ Tue Feb 26, 2013 7:30 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: How different are the time skills |
Grisalger wrote: OtakuViking wrote: I think it doesn't matter, because your opponent also has less time to think But it may affect you differently. For example, some players panic when in byo-yomi, while others don't have the same problem with playing fast, and some always play very quickly anyway. I am bad at handling byo-yomi, but I almost never get there in serious games, so it doesn't matter if I can't handle it. But it is clear that relative playing strenght depends on the time limits. I definitely agree with you. There are certain skills associated with longer times, that some players develop. Like thinking out ten different locations, then choosing one, and counting. On the other hand I optimizing play in for an hour isn't necessarily trivial, and is substantially different than the long play. I think that game statistics should take into account time. |
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| Author: | SmoothOper [ Tue Feb 26, 2013 9:39 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: How different are the time skills |
Comparing Japanese play to Korean or Chinese play, there are a couple of things that I wouldn't expect based on the time limits. 1) Japanese tend to be more joseki oriented, in particular hoshi joseki. I guess with the longer time limits, I wouldn't expect the standards to arise as often. Maybe they are able to think out the full implications of each move, so that they become standards, and that the opening isn't as important as a long and accurate end game. 2) Koreans and Chinese tend to be more Fuseki oriented in particular with 3-4 stone variations. I would expect more local Joseki, with sorter time periods, however it seems that maybe the idea is to prevent the opponent from using standard sequences in an effective way. |
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| Author: | oren [ Tue Feb 26, 2013 10:05 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: How different are the time skills |
SmoothOper wrote: Comparing Japanese play to Korean or Chinese play, there are a couple of things that I wouldn't expect based on the time limits. Examples would help... I've watched many pro games and haven't seen the behavior you're describing. |
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| Author: | SmoothOper [ Tue Feb 26, 2013 12:10 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: How different are the time skills |
oren wrote: SmoothOper wrote: Comparing Japanese play to Korean or Chinese play, there are a couple of things that I wouldn't expect based on the time limits. Examples would help... I've watched many pro games and haven't seen the behavior you're describing. I don't think you can expect specific examples would be sufficient to prove my observations on way or another. |
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| Author: | oren [ Tue Feb 26, 2013 12:55 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: How different are the time skills |
SmoothOper wrote: I don't think you can expect specific examples would be sufficient to prove my observations on way or another. No, but statistics would be some evidence. I can also say Japanese pros tend to start on 7-7 if I want to. |
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| Author: | SmoothOper [ Tue Feb 26, 2013 1:59 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: How different are the time skills |
oren wrote: SmoothOper wrote: I don't think you can expect specific examples would be sufficient to prove my observations on way or another. No, but statistics would be some evidence. I can also say Japanese pros tend to start on 7-7 if I want to. I don't know of a way to do that, I think most statistics just lump all professional games together, part of the reason I brought up the thread, is I think time should be taken into account when using statistics about certain plays. So I acknowledge, the hypothee-ness of my statements. |
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| Author: | cdybeijing [ Tue Feb 26, 2013 5:57 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: How different are the time skills |
On the ICC, where serious players play online chess, the most common time settings each have their own rank. That is, 1 minute absolute, 3 minutes absolute, 5 minutes absolute, 15 minutes absolute and 45 minutes absolute. Many players had rating differences over up to several hundred ELO points between the different rankings. It is undeniable that in both go and chess, players' strengths and weaknesses play out quite differently depending on the time settings. |
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| Author: | SmoothOper [ Wed Feb 27, 2013 7:23 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: How different are the time skills |
cdybeijing wrote: On the ICC, where serious players play online chess, the most common time settings each have their own rank. That is, 1 minute absolute, 3 minutes absolute, 5 minutes absolute, 15 minutes absolute and 45 minutes absolute. Many players had rating differences over up to several hundred ELO points between the different rankings. It is undeniable that in both go and chess, players' strengths and weaknesses play out quite differently depending on the time settings. I am willing to go one step further that they also have different strategies and tesuji at different time settings. |
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| Author: | Uberdude [ Wed Feb 27, 2013 7:39 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: How different are the time skills |
SmoothOper wrote: I am willing to go one step further that they also have different strategies and tesuji at different time settings. Yes, the maybe-they-won't-spot-atari tesuji only works in blitz. |
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