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 Post subject: 1001 GoGoD Games for your Coffee Break #53 (19 Mar 2013)
Post #1 Posted: Tue Mar 19, 2013 4:38 pm 

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A fairly common theme - we have it in another thread (Yi Se-tol vs western pros) at the moment - is whether pros can give a bigger handicap than normal if they really try to win. There is very little evidence to base a judgement on, but there is some. And if you accept it, the idea that, say, a 5-dan amateur can always match a pro on 4 (or 3) stones is poppycock. Maybe 7 stones is more appropriate?

Anyway, in the present game, part of a long series, the legendary Huang Longshi gave Xu Xingyou 3 stones in a match now known as the Games of Blood and Tears. The series of games was so named because Huang gave a much bigger handicap than was deserved, and both players therefore put intense effort into the games. Yet Xu was no tyro or young whippersnapper (he was only about 7 years younger). He was a fully established player who was soon to become a Guoshou (Meijin) himself! It was the apparent humiliation of Xu in this series that justified the later stories that he poisoned Huang.

There are some murky aspects about these games. After all they date from the second half of the 17th century. One obscurity is the result of the present game, but it is generally accepted White (Huang) won.

Another puzzle is that there is a game in some sources where Huang gives 4 stones to Xu and wins! But the same record appears elsewhere as a game between Shi Dingan and Zhang Daxiong. In fact, one of the three-stone B&T games likewise appears elsewhere, this time with Xu as White giving a handicap to Shao Weiyuan. But on the whole, the existence and result of the match seem to be accepted.

This post by John Fairbairn was liked by: SoDesuNe
 Post subject: Re: 1001 GoGoD Games for your Coffee Break #53 (19 Mar 2013)
Post #2 Posted: Wed Mar 20, 2013 1:49 am 
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I also think facing a pro on 4H as a 5-dan will be - maybe - treated as a more serious teaching game. Still, I was confused by Zen's (the bot) results on 4H but maybe you can say that the bot knows how to count and thus can play accordingly - compared to high dan amateurs ^^

An Younggil made a very nice review of one of the games of this series (sadly not the one presented here) on Go Game Guru: ... and-tears/

My "guide" to become stronger in Go

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