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What sort of mistakes cause me to lose
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Author:  daal [ Sun Apr 21, 2013 4:34 am ]
Post subject:  What sort of mistakes cause me to lose
Today I figured, instead of blaming good books for my lousy play, I'd have a look at some of my recent losses to see if I could discern any general patterns. I didn't go about this in a particularly scientific way - I just loaded up the games and tried to find the culprit. My thought was that if something stood out, that I would have something to focus on. Unfortunately, I seem to be rather flexible in discovering ways to lose - although both misjudging the status of a group as well as lax, ineffective play are things which each caused losses in 3/16 games over the last month or so. Here is the list:

1. Misjudged status of a group 3x
2. Missed opportuntity to reduce opponent's territory
3. Failed invasion of opponent's moyo
4. Small tactical errors
5. Slow and ineffective moves & missing chance to make urgent moves.
6. Misread during a fight 2x
7. Blunder 2x
8. Failed attacks (Timing)
9. Mishandling invasion - not taking care of stones
10. Lax, ineffective play (Helping opponent to make large territory) 3x
Author:  Uberdude [ Sun Apr 21, 2013 4:47 am ]
Post subject:  Re: What sort of mistakes cause me to lose
Perhaps the most common reason for losing is playing a stronger player. :)
Author:  SoDesuNe [ Sun Apr 21, 2013 4:52 am ]
Post subject:  Re: What sort of mistakes cause me to lose
For me this sounds like three possibilities to improve: Reading (Tsumego, Tesuji), Experience (more reviewed games) and Counting (well, couting, I guess ^^).

1. Misjudged status of a group 3x (R, E)
2. Missed opportuntity to reduce opponent's territory (E, C)
3. Failed invasion of opponent's moyo (R, E)
4. Small tactical errors (R)
5. Slow and ineffective moves & missing chance to make urgent moves. (E)
6. Misread during a fight 2x (R)
7. Blunder 2x (R, E)
8. Failed attacks (Timing) (E, C)
9. Mishandling invasion - not taking care of stones (R, E, C)
10. Lax, ineffective play (Helping opponent to make large territory) 3x (E, C)
Author:  daal [ Sun Apr 21, 2013 6:55 am ]
Post subject:  Re: What sort of mistakes cause me to lose
Uberdude wrote:
Perhaps the most common reason for losing is playing a stronger player. :)

I can't do much about how well my opponent plays, but I can try to minimize the ways he can beat me.

SoDesuNe wrote:
For me this sounds like three possibilities to improve: Reading (Tsumego, Tesuji), Experience (more reviewed games) and Counting (well, couting, I guess ^^).

1. Misjudged status of a group 3x (R, E)
2. Missed opportunity to reduce opponent's territory (E, C)
3. Failed invasion of opponent's moyo (R, E)
4. Small tactical errors (R)
5. Slow and ineffective moves & missing chance to make urgent moves. (E)
6. Misread during a fight 2x (R)
7. Blunder 2x (R, E)
8. Failed attacks (Timing) (E, C)
9. Mishandling invasion - not taking care of stones (R, E, C)
10. Lax, ineffective play (Helping opponent to make large territory) 3x (E, C


Interesting, and thanks for your input, as it's helped me clarify how I see these results.

First of all, I just noticed that 5 and 10, slow, lax and ineffective play, are pretty similar, and so that makes up a quarter of my losses. I think getting better at tesuji would be of some help here, but also what I would call whole board vision (can I tenuki?).

Points 1, 2 and 7 which amount to more than 1/3 of my losses are in my mind about concentration i.e.: not paying attention. This is something I've been grappling with as long as I've played go and I haven't found a cure yet.

The remaining points, failed invasions and handling of opponents invasions, failed attacks, misreads and tactical errors are mistakes that Robert Jasiek summed up as "profound planning." Like you say, reading, experience and counting - but in particular I see it as an aspect of reading in which one develops the ability to compare and judge the potential results of non-L&D exchanges. In Robert's words, getting to the stage where playing "'by educated guessing' starts to be replaced by playing 'by verification'."
Author:  SmoothOper [ Sun Apr 21, 2013 7:30 am ]
Post subject:  Re: What sort of mistakes cause me to lose
I don't think crediting ones losses to blunders is a positive attitude. A) it sort of assumes you were a superior player.
B) it prevents seeing your opponents strategy as being effective.

Sure many people miss a snap back or order of play, but if you know them already, then there is no reason to fuss over them.
Author:  daal [ Sun Apr 21, 2013 8:32 am ]
Post subject:  Re: What sort of mistakes cause me to lose
SmoothOper wrote:
I don't think crediting ones losses to blunders is a positive attitude. A) it sort of assumes you were a superior player.
B) it prevents seeing your opponents strategy as being effective.

Sure many people miss a snap back or order of play, but if you know them already, then there is no reason to fuss over them.


Well, first of all, I'm not fussing over them, but rather trying to see what tends to go wrong in my games. In 1/8th of the games I looked at, the reason I lost was, in my judgement, because I blundered. As to assumptions - I assume that if I have an advantageous position and I make a blunder - a move where I unnecessarily lose an important group - that this has more to do with me than with my opponent. In no way is this an indication that I feel superior. I do think however, that if my position was advantageous before the blunder, that other games may be better examples of an opponent's effective strategy.
Author:  Bill Spight [ Sun Apr 21, 2013 9:03 am ]
Post subject:  Re: What sort of mistakes cause me to lose
daal wrote:
Today I figured, instead of blaming good books for my lousy play, I'd have a look at some of my recent losses to see if I could discern any general patterns. I didn't go about this in a particularly scientific way - I just loaded up the games and tried to find the culprit. My thought was that if something stood out, that I would have something to focus on. Unfortunately, I seem to be rather flexible in discovering ways to lose - although both misjudging the status of a group as well as lax, ineffective play are things which each caused losses in 3/16 games over the last month or so. Here is the list:

1. Misjudged status of a group 3x
2. Missed opportuntity to reduce opponent's territory
3. Failed invasion of opponent's moyo
4. Small tactical errors
5. Slow and ineffective moves & missing chance to make urgent moves.
6. Misread during a fight 2x
7. Blunder 2x
8. Failed attacks (Timing)
9. Mishandling invasion - not taking care of stones
10. Lax, ineffective play (Helping opponent to make large territory) 3x


I made three groups:

Mishandling groups:

1. Misjudged status of a group 3x
3. Failed invasion of opponent's moyo
9. Mishandling invasion - not taking care of stones

Misreading:

4. Small tactical errors
6. Misread during a fight 2x
7. Blunder 2x

Missed opportunities:

2. Missed opportunity to reduce opponent's territory
5. Slow and ineffective moves & missing chance to make urgent moves.
8. Failed attacks (Timing)
10. Lax, ineffective play (Helping opponent to make large territory) 3x

Tsumego can help with the first two categories, although both are broader than tsumego. Studying invasion and reduction can help with the first category. I can recommend Segoe's book on increasing fighting strength for the second category. :)

The third category is the one on which you can make the quickest progress. It is mainly a question of attitude. Fight fiercely!

Many years ago I subscribed to a magazine published in India. Indian English has its own charm. :) One editor, writing about an upcoming holiday, said that it was a chance for "all of India to gird up its loins and celebrate." ;) So gird up your loins, fight fiercely, and celebrate your wins. :)
Author:  Bantari [ Sun Apr 21, 2013 9:51 am ]
Post subject:  Re: What sort of mistakes cause me to lose
Uberdude wrote:
Perhaps the most common reason for losing is playing a stronger player. :)

Heh. Let me re-phrase.
Go is a game of pure chance. You always loose if you chance to play a stronger player. ;)
Author:  hyperpape [ Sun Apr 21, 2013 10:37 am ]
Post subject:  Re: What sort of mistakes cause me to lose
What's the difference between 4 and 6?
Author:  Bill Spight [ Sun Apr 21, 2013 11:49 am ]
Post subject:  Re: What sort of mistakes cause me to lose
hyperpape wrote:
What's the difference between 4 and 6?


2

;)
Author:  daal [ Sun Apr 21, 2013 12:54 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: What sort of mistakes cause me to lose
hyperpape wrote:
What's the difference between 4 and 6?


The small tactical errors were in a close game where I lost a point here and there that added up. The misreads during a fight caused big point swings. That said, go is a win or lose game, so basically, you're right, it pretty much amounts to the same thing.
Author:  Mef [ Sun Apr 21, 2013 2:32 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: What sort of mistakes cause me to lose
Bill Spight wrote:
The third category is the one on which you can make the quickest progress. It is mainly a question of attitude. Fight fiercely!


In addition to a change of attitude I think some advice from the "blunder" thread in another section is useful here - apply a checklist. Asking yourself "Is this area urgent?" and if the answer is no "Where is the urgent area?" before every move can help you find some opportunities. Or if the current area is settled "Where was the last ignored move? Does it have a follow up?"
Author:  hyperpape [ Sun Apr 21, 2013 6:12 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: What sort of mistakes cause me to lose
Daal, that answer is...surprisingly obvious in hindsight.
Author:  Kirby [ Sun Apr 21, 2013 8:22 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: What sort of mistakes cause me to lose
daal wrote:
<Original-Post>


I like the idea of listing our what you think went wrong like this. I think that your having looked at your games in this manner is, in itself, valuable. Maybe that alone is enough to help you improve.
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