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Are there someone who are also cheated by Chinese ?
http://www.lifein19x19.com/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=8814		 Page 1 of 2
Author:  Kuopio [ Sun Jul 28, 2013 11:13 am ]
Post subject:  Are there someone who are also cheated by Chinese ?
I am China-born European. Because my parents are Chinese, so I tried to learn more things about Chinese society. And also, I prefer to buy Chinese products. Some day ago, I bought a pack of go board and stones from a Chinese company in Germany. The go board and stones are originally made in China. I spent quite a lot of money on that, but then I was told that the board and stones are not exactly the same like it should be. I was told that I spent too much on the product. So are there some people who have similar experience? Do you guys also feel that there are too many lies in Chinese society. I feel sad about this, because I am Chinese origin, but I am not proud of this at all. So sad!
Author:  Boidhre [ Sun Jul 28, 2013 11:31 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Are there someone who are also cheated by Chinese ?
There are a lot of people in China, there tends to be a fair percentage of scam artists or those willing to take advantage of you in any country. I'd be surprised if there weren't a large number of cases of someone getting swindled and a Chinese seller being involved, mere numbers just says this will happen even if you have a very low incident of it per head of population.
Author:  Kuopio [ Sun Jul 28, 2013 11:41 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Are there someone who are also cheated by Chinese ?
Boidhre wrote:
There are a lot of people in China, there tends to be a fair percentage of scam artists or those willing to take advantage of you in any country. I'd be surprised if there weren't a large number of cases of someone getting swindled and a Chinese seller being involved, mere numbers just says this will happen even if you have a very low incident of it per head of population.



So , what I should do is to admit I had a bad luck????
Author:  Boidhre [ Sun Jul 28, 2013 12:02 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Are there someone who are also cheated by Chinese ?
Kuopio wrote:
Boidhre wrote:
There are a lot of people in China, there tends to be a fair percentage of scam artists or those willing to take advantage of you in any country. I'd be surprised if there weren't a large number of cases of someone getting swindled and a Chinese seller being involved, mere numbers just says this will happen even if you have a very low incident of it per head of population.



So , what I should do is to admit I had a bad luck????


No. Use whatever national legislation you have for protecting sellers to pursue the seller. If you paid using Paypal look at their payments dispute procedures and so on. If you are living in the EU your country should have distance selling legislation (it was passed at EU level, it varies from country to country how it has been implemented).
Author:  Joaz Banbeck [ Sun Jul 28, 2013 12:15 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Are there someone who are also cheated by Chinese ?
I suspect that the Chinese as a group are no more honest nor less honest than non-Chinese. I'd expect to find the same proportion of saints and sinners among them.

What you are probably experiencing is the inevitable misunderstandings that occur when two previously separate societies come into closer contact and start trading. Different laws and different customs lead to the impression that the other guy is trying to cheat you when he is just doing business the normal way by his standards.

There are lots of examples of this. When Americans tried to do business in post-war Japan, they found reaching agreements to be confusing. If a Japanese businessman said 'Yes', often, he meant 'Yes, I understand'. Whereas the American heard 'Yes, I agree'. The Americans thought the Japanese to be dishonest, whereas the Japanese found the Americans totally lacking in wa and omoiyari.

In my bookstore, as is common in many American retail establishments, I ask customers to leave backpacks and large bags at the counter. The vast majority agree with no problem.
A few years back, one African gentleman, in shabby but clearly foreign garb, when so requested, placed his bag on the desk behind the counter - instead of handing it to me. I wanted to use the desk, so I started to place the bag on the floor. He vigorously objected. After some initial confusion, it turned out that he had no trouble leaving the bag, as long as he could see it. And he did not even want me to touch it.
From his point of view, he had no problem with a store owner being worried about shoplifting. But he also believed that the pilfering of his bag was a legitimate concern for him, and that it was his responsibility to protect himself against that.
In his view of the world, it was perfectly normal for neither side to trust the other at all. He thought that he had placed his bag on a neutral ground, and that I, by merely touching his bag, had violated the sanctity of that neutral ground. From his point of view, I was the savage who did not understand that civilized people handled bags in this manner. He thought that I was preparing to cheat him.
Author:  Bill Spight [ Sun Jul 28, 2013 12:33 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Are there someone who are also cheated by Chinese ?
Kuopio wrote:
I am China-born European. Because my parents are Chinese, so I tried to learn more things about Chinese society. And also, I prefer to buy Chinese products. Some day ago, I bought a pack of go board and stones from a Chinese company in Germany. The go board and stones are originally made in China. I spent quite a lot of money on that, but then I was told that the board and stones are not exactly the same like it should be. I was told that I spent too much on the product. So are there some people who have similar experience? Do you guys also feel that there are too many lies in Chinese society. I feel sad about this, because I am Chinese origin, but I am not proud of this at all. So sad!


Somebody told you that you got robbed, and you believe them. :scratch:
Author:  Kuopio [ Sun Jul 28, 2013 12:37 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Are there someone who are also cheated by Chinese ?
Bill Spight wrote:
Kuopio wrote:
I am China-born European. Because my parents are Chinese, so I tried to learn more things about Chinese society. And also, I prefer to buy Chinese products. Some day ago, I bought a pack of go board and stones from a Chinese company in Germany. The go board and stones are originally made in China. I spent quite a lot of money on that, but then I was told that the board and stones are not exactly the same like it should be. I was told that I spent too much on the product. So are there some people who have similar experience? Do you guys also feel that there are too many lies in Chinese society. I feel sad about this, because I am Chinese origin, but I am not proud of this at all. So sad!


Somebody told you that you got robbed, and you believe them. :scratch:


I guese I do. Why they should lie to me? In Finland, we usually do not lie this kind of things. Maybe in your country, there are full of cheaters.
Author:  EdLee [ Sun Jul 28, 2013 12:43 pm ]
Post subject: 
Kuopio wrote:
Maybe in your country, there are full of cheaters.
I know of no country with only good people, and no country with only bad people.
(Similar sentiment to Joaz's reply).

"There is good and bad in everyone" -- Stevie Wonder

There is also a learning curve to everything, including Go equipment and
dealing with people (and companies).
Author:  SmoothOper [ Sun Jul 28, 2013 1:31 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Are there someone who are also cheated by Chinese ?
On eBay there are a number of sellers of weiqi boards that ship from china, with a very inexpensive price. My wife who is a native said they looked too good to be true, so I avoided them, because I can't imagine negotiating a return, eventually I read that the good quality weqi board lumber stock is being depleted there, this is why a chunk of wood is so expensive anyway. So I went with a less authentic but acceptable quality yellow spruce board from yellow mountain imports. It is also sad that Chinese/Thai rosewood is listed in cites, due to too much demand.

So far I have had good experiences with various larger organizations, yesasia, tea vivre, carrot music. The main draw back being shipping time from Shanghai or Hong Kong.
Author:  Kuopio [ Sun Jul 28, 2013 1:35 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Are there someone who are also cheated by Chinese ?
SmoothOper wrote:
On eBay there are a number of sellers of weiqi boards that ship from china, with a very inexpensive price. My wife who is a native said they looked too good to be true, so I avoided them, because I can't imagine negotiating a return, eventually I read that the good quality weqi board lumber stock is being depleted there, this is why a chunk of wood is so expensive anyway. So I went with a less authentic but acceptable quality yellow spruce board from yellow mountain imports. It is also sad that Chinese/Thai rosewood is listed in cites, do to too much demand.

So far I have had good experiences with various larger organizations, yesasia, tea vivre, carrot music. The main draw back being shipping time from Shanghai or Hong Kong.


Thanks for the experience you shared to me. I think next time I would suggest my friends to order go board and stones from Japanese companies. I am just so bored of this kind of things.
Author:  Kuopio [ Sun Jul 28, 2013 1:36 pm ]
Post subject:  Re:
EdLee wrote:
Kuopio wrote:
Maybe in your country, there are full of cheaters.
I know of no country with only good people, and no country with only bad people.
(Similar sentiment to Joaz's reply).

"There is good and bad in everyone" -- Stevie Wonder

There is also a learning curve to everything, including Go equipment and
dealing with people (and companies).


Do you want to tell me that Finland should also have tons of liars?????
Author:  Joaz Banbeck [ Sun Jul 28, 2013 1:41 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Re:
Kuopio wrote:
...
Do you want to tell me that Finland should also have tons of liars?????


No. We state that the proportion will be the same among Finns and Chinese, but that the problems usually arise due to cultural misunderstandings.

The African gentleman mentioned earlier in this thread would not only think that Americans were thieves and liars, but that Finns were too.
Author:  Kuopio [ Sun Jul 28, 2013 1:56 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Re:
Joaz Banbeck wrote:
Kuopio wrote:
...
Do you want to tell me that Finland should also have tons of liars?????


No. We state that the proportion will be the same among Finns and Chinese, but that the problems usually arise due to cultural misunderstandings.

The African gentleman mentioned earlier in this thread would not only think that Americans were thieves and liars, but that Finns were too.

I am really pissed off by you. How could you know Finns are thieves and liars? If you have never been to Finland, then I suggest you shut off your mouth. There was a china town in Finland but it was shut off in 2009 , because those Chinese businessmen brought tons of illegal immigrants here by the name of business. So who are cheaters? I wish you could find evidence that Finns went to China to stay illegally , in order to get Chinese identity. If you can not , stop calling Finns as liars. I have never heard Finns to complain that the were cheated by Finnish companies here. Last time , I broke my laptop, I just went to Giganti to get changed a new one. But when now even I could not find the cheating Chinese go companies any more. So you see the difference.
Author:  Joaz Banbeck [ Sun Jul 28, 2013 2:04 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Are there someone who are also cheated by Chinese ?
The effects of cultural misunderstandings are probably exacerbated by opportunists.

When two previously unacquainted cultures start doing business, the difference in laws and customs tends to create gaps where the expectations of one side do not match the expectations of the other. In any culture there will be a small percentage of dishonest people, and they will tend to migrate toward the opportunities created, thereby giving the people in the other culture a disproportionate impression.

An example of this is the increase in the interactions between American and Nigerian culture that began when the internet connected the two. As illustrated earlier, in some African cultures the standard is that each party must protect himself. So few Nigerians would fall for the so-called 'Nigerian scams'.
But American have different standards of trust. Some might say that we are gullible. Too many of us fall for Nigerian scams.
So the few dishonest Nigerians then increase their transactions where opportunities are available. In other words, they start scamming Americans on the net. They are exploiting the opportunity generated by cultural differences.
Honest Nigerian business people do not have such great opportunities for profit, so they do not alter their business as much. The net effect is that Americans then see a disproportionate number of Nigerian crooks.

Too many Americans start to think of all Nigerians as crooks.

It is quite possible that the internet has opened up similar opportunities for the small portion of dishonest Chinese. And it may be possible to acquire a skewed perception of Chinese businesses in a similar manner.
Author:  Bill Spight [ Sun Jul 28, 2013 2:18 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Are there someone who are also cheated by Chinese ?
IMO, this thread is inappropriate.
Author:  Redundant [ Sun Jul 28, 2013 2:24 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Are there someone who are also cheated by Chinese ?
Bill Spight wrote:
IMO, this thread is inappropriate.


Ditto. This is fodder for "I'm not racist, but ..." sort of comments.
Author:  Kuopio [ Sun Jul 28, 2013 2:33 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Are there someone who are also cheated by Chinese ?
Redundant wrote:
Bill Spight wrote:
IMO, this thread is inappropriate.


Ditto. This is fodder for "I'm not racist, but ..." sort of comments.


Are u sure you read my post?
Author:  illluck [ Sun Jul 28, 2013 2:40 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Are there someone who are also cheated by Chinese ?
Kuopio wrote:
Redundant wrote:
Bill Spight wrote:
IMO, this thread is inappropriate.


Ditto. This is fodder for "I'm not racist, but ..." sort of comments.


Are u sure you read my post?


Indeed, you can note that there are no such disclaimers.
Author:  Kuopio [ Sun Jul 28, 2013 3:00 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Are there someone who are also cheated by Chinese ?
Indeed, you can note that there are no such disclaimers.[/quote]

Whatever! I just posted personal experience and want to know some similar stories happened to other people who tried to like Chinese go. It has nothing to do with something else. I do know some Chinese are also wonderful. My opinion is just that are there someone who was a fan of Chinese go then cheated by Chinese go equipment companies. Nothing special! Once more, I already told you why you are not welcome here!! So please out of my forum. Thanks!! In return, I will never go to your forum. Deal?
Author:  Bonobo [ Sun Jul 28, 2013 3:09 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Are there someone who are also cheated by Chinese ?
You have to say “shoo, shoo”, then they might go away.
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