Life In 19x19 :: Stone placing etiquette/tradition: Japan vs. the rest?

This may be a trivial question, but I was wondering if there is any reading on stone-placing etiquette in different E. Asian countries. From watching videos of tournaments and lectures from Japan and China, Taiwan, and Korea, I noticed that the Japanese go players tend to place their stones with a "snap", while most other nations' players don't (except one Chinese go commentator who was placing single-sided stones with a snap). In fact, I've seen Taiwanese and Korean pros place the stones very lightly and carefully.

So, I was wondering if there is a difference in tradition or etiquette of placing go stones between the countries.

I think most of us are familiar with the "nickname" for Go "Hand talk" (手談 in Japanese characters shudan in Romaji). The gestures used in placing stones on the board are part of shudan. Interesting that this part of go is completely lost in online play.

gowan wrote:

It would be amusing to have different "stone sound" options for each move while playing online. Find a tesuji your opponent missed? *SNAP* Want to show off your quiet confidence? *tick* "I CAN'T BELIEVE I MISSED THAT MOVE!"? *THUNK*

gowan wrote:

Well, I have read (before I wrote this question) that the etiquette is to place the stone more forcefully when you're making a strong move (ear-reddening move is a perfect example, I think), but more quietly when you're making a defensive move.

Author:	FlyingAxe [ Wed Jul 31, 2013 5:24 pm ]
Post subject:	Stone placing etiquette/tradition: Japan vs. the rest?
This may be a trivial question, but I was wondering if there is any reading on stone-placing etiquette in different E. Asian countries. From watching videos of tournaments and lectures from Japan and China, Taiwan, and Korea, I noticed that the Japanese go players tend to place their stones with a "snap", while most other nations' players don't (except one Chinese go commentator who was placing single-sided stones with a snap). In fact, I've seen Taiwanese and Korean pros place the stones very lightly and carefully. So, I was wondering if there is a difference in tradition or etiquette of placing go stones between the countries.

Author:	clemi [ Wed Jul 31, 2013 10:18 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Stone placing etiquette/tradition: Japan vs. the rest?
When one wants to impress its opponent, he/she places the stone with a loud snap.

Author:	gowan [ Thu Aug 01, 2013 1:41 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Stone placing etiquette/tradition: Japan vs. the rest?
FlyingAxe wrote: This may be a trivial question, but I was wondering if there is any reading on stone-placing etiquette in different E. Asian countries. From watching videos of tournaments and lectures from Japan and China, Taiwan, and Korea, I noticed that the Japanese go players tend to place their stones with a "snap", while most other nations' players don't (except one Chinese go commentator who was placing single-sided stones with a snap). In fact, I've seen Taiwanese and Korean pros place the stones very lightly and carefully. So, I was wondering if there is a difference in tradition or etiquette of placing go stones between the countries. There is no particular style of playing a stone for different countries. Individual players, no matter what their country is, may use the gesture of playing a stone to express things like fighting spirit, confidence, resistance, aggression, acceptance, etc. I have seen Japanese pros play stones softly and firmly, with a snap, banged down aggressively, banged down defiantly, etc. Pros from other countries do the same.

Author:	Phoenix [ Thu Aug 01, 2013 7:38 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Stone placing etiquette/tradition: Japan vs. the rest?
In short, hand talk.

Author:	FlyingAxe [ Thu Aug 01, 2013 7:44 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Stone placing etiquette/tradition: Japan vs. the rest?
Thanks for the responses. It's interesting that every player has his own style.

Life In 19x19 http://www.lifein19x19.com/

Stone placing etiquette/tradition: Japan vs. the rest? http://www.lifein19x19.com/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=8843	Page 1 of 1

Author:	MJK [ Fri Aug 02, 2013 2:38 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Stone placing etiquette/tradition: Japan vs. the rest?
Maybe a late response, but your observasion may be correct. From what I've heard, that before and during 1980's in Korea, insei's actually learned how to place a stone "cool". It shouldn't be too rough, not to be thought as a sense of aggression; nor be somehow feeble, perhaps suggesting lack of confidence. However, pros after Lee Changho era didn't learn such stuff and they just place the stones their own. And as far as I know Japanese pros still think this way of placing stones quite important, while Kim Seongryong 9p said "Japanese are the best in the world of placing stones" during his commentary.

Author:	EdLee [ Fri Aug 02, 2013 3:06 am ]
Post subject:
MJK may be onto something. In the 1970's, when Fujisawa sensei visited China multiple times to help train some of the Chinese players, they certain had some influence (directly or indirectly) from the Japanese understanding in Go, including how to place stones. It may be interesting to compare the Chinese players who had the most direct influence from the Japanese, versus those who didn't, and see how they would place the stones differently. Cho U v. Yoda Norimoto -- Takemiya sensei live commentary My experience with Mr. Ming Jiu 7p was relaying board 1 at a tourney a few years ago, and I was very impressed by how he placed his stones. I'm sure his students in the Bay Area can regularly watch him do this.

Author:	gowan [ Fri Aug 02, 2013 5:15 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Stone placing etiquette/tradition: Japan vs. the rest?
I think most of us are familiar with the "nickname" for Go "Hand talk" (手談 in Japanese characters shudan in Romaji). The gestures used in placing stones on the board are part of shudan. Interesting that this part of go is completely lost in online play.

Author:	judicata [ Fri Aug 02, 2013 8:52 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Stone placing etiquette/tradition: Japan vs. the rest?
gowan wrote: I think most of us are familiar with the "nickname" for Go "Hand talk" (手談 in Japanese characters shudan in Romaji). The gestures used in placing stones on the board are part of shudan. Interesting that this part of go is completely lost in online play. It would be amusing to have different "stone sound" options for each move while playing online. Find a tesuji your opponent missed? *SNAP* Want to show off your quiet confidence? *tick* "I CAN'T BELIEVE I MISSED THAT MOVE!"? *THUNK*

Author:	Bonobo [ Fri Aug 02, 2013 10:00 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Stone placing etiquette/tradition: Japan vs. the rest?
judicata wrote: gowan wrote: I think most of us are familiar with the "nickname" for Go "Hand talk" (手談 in Japanese characters shudan in Romaji). The gestures used in placing stones on the board are part of shudan. Interesting that this part of go is completely lost in online play. It would be amusing to have different "stone sound" options for each move while playing online. Find a tesuji your opponent missed? *SNAP* Want to show off your quiet confidence? *tick* "I CAN'T BELIEVE I MISSED THAT MOVE!"? *THUNK* I’d thought of something similar, too: slightly & unobtrusively different animations for stone placement. One stone wobbles a bit, another one doesn’t sit exactly on the intersection, another one pushes a stone of the opponent a little bit further …

Author:	FlyingAxe [ Fri Aug 02, 2013 10:38 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Stone placing etiquette/tradition: Japan vs. the rest?
judicata wrote: gowan wrote: I think most of us are familiar with the "nickname" for Go "Hand talk" (手談 in Japanese characters shudan in Romaji). The gestures used in placing stones on the board are part of shudan. Interesting that this part of go is completely lost in online play. It would be amusing to have different "stone sound" options for each move while playing online. Find a tesuji your opponent missed? *SNAP* Want to show off your quiet confidence? *tick* "I CAN'T BELIEVE I MISSED THAT MOVE!"? *THUNK* Well, I have read (before I wrote this question) that the etiquette is to place the stone more forcefully when you're making a strong move (ear-reddening move is a perfect example, I think), but more quietly when you're making a defensive move. But I couldn't find this statement later. This is a different topic, but I was also surprised that go players in Taiwan use biconvex stones. E.g.: http://youtu.be/uaiOBfrn7X0?t=4m56s (I assume it was Taiwan because Google told me it was in Chinese Traditional.)

Author:	Phoenix [ Sat Aug 03, 2013 8:38 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Stone placing etiquette/tradition: Japan vs. the rest?
FlyingAxe wrote: Well, I have read (before I wrote this question) that the etiquette is to place the stone more forcefully when you're making a strong move (ear-reddening move is a perfect example, I think), but more quietly when you're making a defensive move. I always thought of Honinbo Shusaku as playing the ear-reddening move with an extremely calm and collected manner, with an enlightened, zen-like cool. It's not a move that immediately achieves anything tangible, but rather dominates play from its quiet existence. No, the move I imagine being played with board-shaking force is Go Seigen's move at 28:54 in this video.

Author:	FlyingAxe [ Sat Aug 03, 2013 7:04 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Stone placing etiquette/tradition: Japan vs. the rest?
I think there in one of the episodes of Hikaru no Go, Kuwabara Sensei scared one of the new dans by slamming a stone on the board as his first move.

Page 1 of 1	All times are UTC - 8 hours [ DST ]
Powered by phpBB © 2000, 2002, 2005, 2007 phpBB Group http://www.phpbb.com/