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 Post subject: Re: How to focus on Sente/Gote?
Post #41 Posted: Thu May 23, 2013 12:22 pm 
Oza

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Thunkd wrote:
skydyr wrote:
Thunkd wrote:
The first example that jumps to mind is the endgame play where both sides have a wall descending to the second line and either can hane threatening to breaking into the other's territory. One side hane's, the other blocks, then both connect. Whoever plays there first gets to make the sente move.


You don't often see similar situations where one player has a stone placed to make it gote for the encroaching player, but the other does not, leaving it sente?

I do see that. But usually it's not worth playing until the endgame as it doesn't get you much and it's a good ko threat.


Right. So for you, you can play it any time for free, but for your opponent, they have to give up sente to play it.

That means that it's yours already, though your opponent can take it away for a price, so you can count it as yours unless your opponent is willing to pay the price because enough time has passed to make it worthwhile. Of course, by that point, you should have played it anyways generally. But when you take it, you aren't making a gain, because you could have played that move at any time. You're only making a gain against your opponent when you take away their sente moves, which are their points by the same logic.

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 Post subject: Re: How to focus on Sente/Gote?
Post #42 Posted: Thu May 23, 2013 9:37 pm 
Lives in sente

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I think that one-sided sente moves are way, way more common than you think. How about all of those 1-point sente pushes near the end of the game? Between both players, it's not hard for there to be 10+ of them.

Here are some examples illustrating one-sided sente, and how to count using the idea that sente doesn't gain anything, but rather secures what is already yours:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$W How many points does black have in the corner?
$$ +--------------
$$ | . X . X . . .
$$ | X . X O . O .
$$ | X . X O . . .
$$ | . X O . . . .
$$ | O O O . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . .[/go]

Answer:
Only the 2 points marked below. White can force the exchange below at any time without costing himself a move, whereas black can only afford to spend a move here at the end of the game when all the moves elsewhere are worth only a point or so. So unless white makes a terrible blunder, white will almost certainly play here before black does, leaving black with 2 points.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$W White sente
$$ +--------------
$$ | C X . X . . .
$$ | X C X O . O .
$$ | X 2 X O . . .
$$ | 1 X O . . . .
$$ | O O O . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . .[/go]


Example:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$W How many points does black have in the corner?
$$ +----------------------
$$ | . X . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . X X X O . .
$$ | X X X X . X O O . O .
$$ | O X O O O . . . . . .
$$ | O O . . . . O . . . .
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . .[/go]


10 points.

The push of W1 for B2 is white's sente. Note that the situation on the top is neither player's sente (either one can play the hane-and-connect in gote), so we simply split the difference when counting and drop the border straight down.

We could say that black has 11 points initially and that white pushing gains 1 point. But it's more accurate to say that black really only has 10 points here, since the vast majority of the time, white will get this push first. By pushing, white secures what is rightfully his, but does not gain anything new, since we already counted it when saying black has 10 points.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$W 10 points
$$ +----------------------
$$ | . X . . . . . B W . .
$$ | . . . . 2 X X X O . .
$$ | X X X X 1 X O O . O .
$$ | O X O O O . . . . . .
$$ | O O . . . . O . . . .
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . .[/go]


Example:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$W How many points does black have in the corner?
$$ +--------------
$$ | . . . . O . .
$$ | X X . X O . .
$$ | O . X O O . .
$$ | . X O . . . .
$$ | . X O . . . .
$$ | . O . . . . .
$$ | . O . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . .[/go]


Answer:
3 points.

Black is alive, but white can reduce the corner down to 3 points in sente whenever he wants. Black must answer these moves or else his corner dies.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$W 3 points
$$ +--------------
$$ | . 4 1 3 O . .
$$ | X X 2 X O . .
$$ | O 6 X O O . .
$$ | 8 X O . . . .
$$ | 5 X O . . . .
$$ | 7 O . . . . .
$$ | . O . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . .[/go]


Of course, white should wait until as late as possible in case liberties become important for the outside group, or in case he needs ko threats. If you can manage to do so, the ideal time to play sente is the turn just before the opponent would find it worth it to spend his move preventing it.

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