Life In 19x19
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I really didn't want to care about losing...
http://www.lifein19x19.com/viewtopic.php?f=11&t=10576		 Page 1 of 1
Author:  Miluriel [ Thu Jul 17, 2014 2:42 pm ]
Post subject:  I really didn't want to care about losing...
So hi, I'm new :D

I've watched this forum for the last few days and it seems like a really great place to be!
Anyway. I started playing Go about a week ago, and was incredibly enthusiastic about it. And I still am. And I know that apparently every person new to this game feels like an idiot, and you shouldn't mind losing a lot of your games etc. etc.
I completely understood that and didn't really mind losing that much. I played some games on OGS, and then tried KGS, where I played a 23k, lost by 80 points - and somehow KGS saw that as good evidence to give me a [23k?] rank. I cant help feeling there must be a mistake there. But okay.
I didn't mind losing on OGS, and I didn't mind losing on KGS - and then this game happened:



There just was something especially depressing about this game. I also can't help feeling it was unecessarily cruel, but of course I can't complain about someone wanting to play their best game possible, especially when I make it so easy. I will probably feel better about it in about an hour :D

So, I'm not sure what my question even is, except maybe: If KGS tells me 20k is what beginners should be, and this was a 20k - how bad am I exactly? Am I just constantly ranked too high and therefore can't play someone closer to my own level? Or is there just no one who is at my level?

You all have probably read hundreds of posts like this, so sorry about that ':D
Author:  virre [ Thu Jul 17, 2014 2:52 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: I really didn't want to care about losing...
Don't KGS says beginners is 30-Kyu or perhaps that is without anything else.
http://www.gokgs.com/help/rank.html

I certanly still see myself as around 30-Kyu, though my one finished game on online-go seems to say 29Kyu.
Perhaps we should play
Author:  Miluriel [ Thu Jul 17, 2014 3:08 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: I really didn't want to care about losing...
virre wrote:
Don't KGS says beginners is 30-Kyu or perhaps that is without anything else.
http://www.gokgs.com/help/rank.html

I certanly still see myself as around 30-Kyu, though my one finished game on online-go seems to say 29Kyu.
Perhaps we should play


It says 20 kyu in the automatic matchfinder thingy, but yeah, I always thought it should be around 30 kyu as well. But as it didn't give me any results when I entered 30, I just assumed people listened the 20 kyu suggestion.
But yes, maybe we should! On OGS I was 29k for a bit, but I'm already back to 30 :D
Author:  Bill Spight [ Thu Jul 17, 2014 3:19 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: I really didn't want to care about losing...
Miluriel wrote:
So hi, I'm new :D

I've watched this forum for the last few days and it seems like a really great place to be!
Anyway. I started playing Go about a week ago, and was incredibly enthusiastic about it. And I still am.


Welcome! :)

You will find that you will improve rapidly. Don't worry about ratings, it will just get in your way. You could be 5 stones stronger in a few days.

Quote:
There just was something especially depressing about this game.


Sorry you felt down. The game humbles us all. :)

This is a good game to study, BTW. Even if you do it on your own. Look at White's invasions in the bottom left corner and right side. Try to figure out how you could have done better. Maybe you can't tell yet whether you could have killed the White groups and if so, how, but play around with the positions and see what you come up with.

Good luck!
Author:  virre [ Thu Jul 17, 2014 3:25 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: I really didn't want to care about losing...
Miluriel wrote:
virre wrote:
Don't KGS says beginners is 30-Kyu or perhaps that is without anything else.
http://www.gokgs.com/help/rank.html

I certanly still see myself as around 30-Kyu, though my one finished game on online-go seems to say 29Kyu.
Perhaps we should play


It says 20 kyu in the automatic matchfinder thingy, but yeah, I always thought it should be around 30 kyu as well. But as it didn't give me any results when I entered 30, I just assumed people listened the 20 kyu suggestion.
But yes, maybe we should! On OGS I was 29k for a bit, but I'm already back to 30 :D


Probably look for games in the beginner room instead of automatch until you have a rank, at least thats the advice I got.
Author:  jeromie [ Thu Jul 17, 2014 3:46 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: I really didn't want to care about losing...
I know it can be discouraging when someone makes a group live inside an area that looks like it was yours, but there are a number of things about this game you can be proud of. You worked to build a strong corner in the upper right, and on move 22 you did a good job of moving away from the initial area that you and white were both playing to begin making territory elsewhere. When white invaded the lower left, you blocked from the direction that kept your stones alive, and you recognized the importance of making sure both of your big groups of stones stayed alive. On the right side, you had some good ideas about how to keep white from taking your territory. It didn't quite work out, but you'll get a better idea of how to defend those sorts of intrusions as you continue to play.

You also did a good job of using your living black group to reduce the amount of territory white had on the top. There's one more big play you could have made using that group after you both passed. Can you find it? :-)

I second Bill's advice to see if you can figure out how you could have stopped the white stones from living or taking over most of your territory. If you get stuck after having a go at it, I (or someone) will be happy to help you out. :-)
Author:  peti29 [ Thu Jul 17, 2014 4:59 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: I really didn't want to care about losing...
I know this feeling too well, when your supposed territory flows through your fingers like sand.

You should not feel bad about this game. You played well!
I know it doesn't feel very uplifting to lose, but if you can learn from a lost game and correct some of your mistakes, that one lost game will win you multiple games in the future!

- By move 60 you were so much ahead. There is a proverb "don't let the snake into your territory" which applies to both your and your opponent's way of invading each-others area.
- black move 106 was bad. It's self-atari. You could have killed that white group with a better chosen move. I'd tell you which one, but since Bill recommended you to try and find better moves I think it would probably benefit you better if I let you find it yourself.
- regarding the white invasion at 185. Often it is better to attack from a little bit further away. Because if you go too close, your attacking stones might become attacked themselves. This happened to your R-8 and R-12 stones.

Welcome to this great game and don't let your rank frustrate you much. (I think ranks above 20k are more or less random anyway - but that's just my opinion.)
Author:  Miluriel [ Fri Jul 18, 2014 2:30 am ]
Post subject:  Re: I really didn't want to care about losing...
Thanks everyone, I will definitely go through this game again and try to find a better solution for the invasions!

@Jeromie: That would be B15? I actually can't believe I didn't see that. I think in the end I stopped thinking and just tried to get it over with :D

@peti29: Possibly N2? I'll think about that some more when I go through the whole game!

So in general I guess this game wasn't really all that bad, because I can learn a lot from it :) (And I think I already did: Never feel too safe in the middle of the game, because you probably aren't.)
Author:  peti29 [ Fri Jul 18, 2014 3:00 am ]
Post subject:  Re: I really didn't want to care about losing...
@Miluriel: yes, N2 is the move, well done!
Author:  Mike Novack [ Fri Jul 18, 2014 5:41 am ]
Post subject:  Re: I really didn't want to care about losing...
At this stage the conditions of play (strength of opponents plus handicap) should be such that you lose at least 3/4 of your games. But not such that you lose all of your games. By winning sometimes you may get to see "that time I didn't make the same old mistakes".

But remember, it doesn't necessarily matter by how much you lose and what you gave was a good example. The difference in final score might be huge between "made a mistake and an over bold invasion made a live group and so I lost a huge amount of territory" and "didn't make a mistake, the invasion failed". The only time you should worry about "lost by how much" would be an unusually quiet game where neither side took any risks.
Author:  Bill Spight [ Fri Jul 18, 2014 6:32 am ]
Post subject:  Re: I really didn't want to care about losing...
Excuse me for butting in, but there is more to move 106 than meets the eye. Here are some variations. No guarantee that everything is correct. (Go humbles us all. ;))



Go to move 106.
Author:  jeromie [ Fri Jul 18, 2014 7:26 am ]
Post subject:  Re: I really didn't want to care about losing...
Miluriel wrote:
So in general I guess this game wasn't really all that bad, because I can learn a lot from it :)


That's a great attitude! If you keep that in mind, your go will improve quickly. And, more importantly, it will continue to be fun!
Author:  Miluriel [ Sat Jul 19, 2014 2:18 am ]
Post subject:  Re: I really didn't want to care about losing...
Bill Spight wrote:
Excuse me for butting in, but there is more to move 106 than meets the eye. Here are some variations. No guarantee that everything is correct. (Go humbles us all. ;))

Go to move 106.


That is indeed more than meets the eye, wow. Thank you! I really need to start paying more attention to liberties...
Author:  EdLee [ Sat Jul 19, 2014 2:59 am ]
Post subject: 
Miluriel wrote:
I really need to start paying more attention to liberties...
:tmbup:
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