Life In 19x19 :: Development direction of a 3-4 corner

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Development direction of a 3-4 corner http://www.lifein19x19.com/viewtopic.php?f=11&t=10966	Page 1 of 1

Author:	PeterPeter [ Wed Oct 22, 2014 10:01 am ]
Post subject:	Development direction of a 3-4 corner
I have some basic understanding of opening principles; that is, to sketch out areas in which you have the most potential, which generally means extending along the sides where you have a corner stone on line 4 rather than line 3. I am unsure about the best way to extend away from a 3-4 corner in a position like this: Click Here To Show Diagram Code [go]$$B $$ +---------------------------------------+ $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . \| $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . \| $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . \| $$ \| . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . \| $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . \| $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . \| $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . \| $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . \| $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . \| $$ \| . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . \| $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . \| $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . \| $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . \| $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . \| $$ \| . . a . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . \| $$ \| . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . O . . . \| $$ \| . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . \| $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . \| $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . \| $$ +---------------------------------------+[/go] The left side of the board looks tempting: it is the biggest empty side, and it extends away from a stone on line 4. However, I also know that completing my 3-4 corner with a stone at A is a good opening move. It might well be played in the next 10 moves, depending on how white continues. But if I were to play at A, suddenly the bottom side of the board has more potential than the left. So, if black wanted to develop along a side (say halfway) using , is one direction theoretically better than the other? Or is it just a question of style?

Author: Bill Spight [ Wed Oct 22, 2014 10:43 am ]

Post subject: Re: Development direction of a 3-4 corner

Well, I am from the old school, so to me

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$B $$ +---------------------------------------+ $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . 2 . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . 1 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . 3 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . O . . . | $$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ +---------------------------------------+[/go]

looks better than this

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$B $$ +---------------------------------------+ $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 2 . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . 3 . . . . . O . . . | $$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . 1 . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ +---------------------------------------+[/go]

OTOH, certainly this is playable.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$B $$ +---------------------------------------+ $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 3 . . | $$ | . . 1 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . O . . . | $$ | . . . X . . . . 2 . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ +---------------------------------------+[/go]

Author:	skydyr [ Wed Oct 22, 2014 11:34 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Development direction of a 3-4 corner
If you want to make a corner enclosure, it's also worth considering this: Click Here To Show Diagram Code [go]$$B $$ +---------------------------------------+ $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . \| $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . \| $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . \| $$ \| . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . \| $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . \| $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . \| $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . \| $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . \| $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . \| $$ \| . . b , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . \| $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . \| $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . \| $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . \| $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . \| $$ \| . . . 1 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . \| $$ \| . . . , . . . . . a . . . . . O . . . \| $$ \| . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . \| $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . \| $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . \| $$ +---------------------------------------+[/go] By playing high, you give white the potential for a better approach from the left side, but it also makes the left bigger for black, so A and B are much closer to miai than with the knight's move enclosure.

Author:	Bill Spight [ Wed Oct 22, 2014 3:17 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Development direction of a 3-4 corner
skydyr wrote: If you want to make a corner enclosure, it's also worth considering this: Click Here To Show Diagram Code [go]$$B $$ +---------------------------------------+ $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . \| $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . \| $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . \| $$ \| . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . \| $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . \| $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . \| $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . \| $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . \| $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . \| $$ \| . . b , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . \| $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . \| $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . \| $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . \| $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . \| $$ \| . . . 1 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . \| $$ \| . . . , . . . . . a . . . . . O . . . \| $$ \| . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . \| $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . \| $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . \| $$ +---------------------------------------+[/go] By playing high, you give white the potential for a better approach from the left side, but it also makes the left bigger for black, so A and B are much closer to miai than with the knight's move enclosure. Actually, on the left side Click Here To Show Diagram Code [go]$$B $$ +---------------------------------------+ $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . \| $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . \| $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . \| $$ \| . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . \| $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . \| $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . \| $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . \| $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . \| $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . \| $$ \| . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . 5 . . . \| $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . \| $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . \| $$ \| . . 6 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . \| $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 3 . . \| $$ \| . . . 1 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . \| $$ \| . . . , . . . . . 2 . . . . . O . . . \| $$ \| . . . X . . . . . . . . . 4 . . . . . \| $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . \| $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . \| $$ +---------------------------------------+[/go] is attractive.

Author:	logan [ Wed Oct 22, 2014 7:02 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Development direction of a 3-4 corner
W6 doesn't bother me at all :) PeterPeter wrote: I have some basic understanding of opening principles; that is, to sketch out areas in which you have the most potential, which generally means extending along the sides where you have a corner stone on line 4 rather than line 3. I am unsure about the best way to extend away from a 3-4 corner in There's about a half-dozen common ways you can extend/build from that corner, so feel free to play whichever you want.

Author:	oca [ Wed Oct 22, 2014 10:48 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Development direction of a 3-4 corner
Bill Spight wrote: skydyr wrote: If you want to make a corner enclosure, it's also worth considering this: ... is attractive. I fear move like that which often lead me to I think I would play at a or b in that situation... but both seems to help white too... compromise.... allways compromise Click Here To Show Diagram Code [go]$$B $$ +---------------------------------------+ $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . \| $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . \| $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . \| $$ \| . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . \| $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . \| $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . \| $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . \| $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . \| $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . \| $$ \| . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . 5 . . . \| $$ \| . . a . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . \| $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . \| $$ \| . . 6 . b . . . . . . . . . . . . . . \| $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 3 . . \| $$ \| . . . 1 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . \| $$ \| . . . , . . . . . 2 . . . . . O . . . \| $$ \| . . . X . . . . . . . . . 4 . . . . . \| $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . \| $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . \| $$ +---------------------------------------+[/go]

Author:	ez4u [ Thu Oct 23, 2014 1:45 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Development direction of a 3-4 corner
From my database... Click Here To Show Diagram Code [go]$$Bc Continuations $$+ - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - + $$\| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . \| $$\| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . \| $$\| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . \| $$\| . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . \| $$\| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . \| $$\| . . a . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . \| $$\| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . \| $$\| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . \| $$\| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . \| $$\| . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . \| $$\| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . \| $$\| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . \| $$\| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . \| $$\| . . d . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . \| $$\| . . b c . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . \| $$\| . . . , . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . \| $$\| . . . X . . . . . . . . . e . . . . . \| $$\| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . \| $$\| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . \| $$+ - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - +[/go] Search results: 334 matches, of which the following occur more than once: B at a: 153 times B at b: 144 times B at c: 18 times B at d: 11 times B at e: 3 times

Author:	skydyr [ Thu Oct 23, 2014 7:04 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Development direction of a 3-4 corner
Bill Spight wrote: skydyr wrote: If you want to make a corner enclosure, it's also worth considering this: Click Here To Show Diagram Code [go]$$B $$ +---------------------------------------+ $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . \| $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . \| $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . \| $$ \| . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . \| $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . \| $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . \| $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . \| $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . \| $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . \| $$ \| . . b , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . \| $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . \| $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . \| $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . \| $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . \| $$ \| . . . 1 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . \| $$ \| . . . , . . . . . a . . . . . O . . . \| $$ \| . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . \| $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . \| $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . \| $$ +---------------------------------------+[/go] By playing high, you give white the potential for a better approach from the left side, but it also makes the left bigger for black, so A and B are much closer to miai than with the knight's move enclosure. Actually, on the left side Click Here To Show Diagram Code [go]$$B $$ +---------------------------------------+ $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . \| $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . \| $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . \| $$ \| . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . \| $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . \| $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . \| $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . \| $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . \| $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . \| $$ \| . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . 5 . . . \| $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . \| $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . \| $$ \| . . 6 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . \| $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 3 . . \| $$ \| . . . 1 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . \| $$ \| . . . , . . . . . 2 . . . . . O . . . \| $$ \| . . . X . . . . . . . . . 4 . . . . . \| $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . \| $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . \| $$ +---------------------------------------+[/go] is attractive. I was thinking of playing on the left directly after in this diagram, and giving white the option of the right side in exchange for a cramped top left. I fully agree that giving white both and is not ideal.

Author:	Bill Spight [ Thu Oct 23, 2014 7:19 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Development direction of a 3-4 corner
oca wrote: “Train yourself to let go of everything you fear to lose.” — Guess who (hint : he's green) Kermit the Frog?

Author:	Bill Spight [ Thu Oct 23, 2014 7:22 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Development direction of a 3-4 corner
skydyr wrote: Bill Spight wrote: skydyr wrote: If you want to make a corner enclosure, it's also worth considering this: Click Here To Show Diagram Code [go]$$B $$ +---------------------------------------+ $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . \| $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . \| $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . \| $$ \| . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . \| $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . \| $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . \| $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . \| $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . \| $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . \| $$ \| . . b , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . \| $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . \| $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . \| $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . \| $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . \| $$ \| . . . 1 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . \| $$ \| . . . , . . . . . a . . . . . O . . . \| $$ \| . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . \| $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . \| $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . \| $$ +---------------------------------------+[/go] By playing high, you give white the potential for a better approach from the left side, but it also makes the left bigger for black, so A and B are much closer to miai than with the knight's move enclosure. Actually, on the left side Click Here To Show Diagram Code [go]$$B $$ +---------------------------------------+ $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . \| $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . \| $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . \| $$ \| . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . \| $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . \| $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . \| $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . \| $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . \| $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . \| $$ \| . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . 5 . . . \| $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . \| $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . \| $$ \| . . 6 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . \| $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 3 . . \| $$ \| . . . 1 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . \| $$ \| . . . , . . . . . 2 . . . . . O . . . \| $$ \| . . . X . . . . . . . . . 4 . . . . . \| $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . \| $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . \| $$ +---------------------------------------+[/go] is attractive. I was thinking of playing on the left directly after in this diagram, and giving white the option of the right side in exchange for a cramped top left. I fully agree that giving white both and is not ideal. My point was to show , not to criticize .

Author:	oca [ Thu Oct 23, 2014 9:18 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Development direction of a 3-4 corner
Bill Spight wrote: oca wrote: “Train yourself to let go of everything you fear to lose.” — Guess who (hint : he's green) Kermit the Frog? Correct ! Well done ! Attachment: Capture.PNG [ 247.66 KiB \| Viewed 7387 times ]

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