As long as you take 5 or more stones from a bot or computer program, I think that the risk of picking up bad habits is not too great. You can pick up bad habits from human opponents, as well.
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| Playing Computer Go to improve http://www.lifein19x19.com/viewtopic.php?f=11&t=11522 |
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| Author: | Tomoe [ Wed Feb 25, 2015 8:35 am ] |
| Post subject: | Playing Computer Go to improve |
Hello everyone, today I played a computer called "gnugo2[12k]" on KGS and I found it quite comfortable since you didn't need to wait for your opponent to place his stone and it was also less stressful. However, some moves seemed a little strange. Sometimes, for instance, the computer played unnecessary moves in his own territory, where it was, as far as I can see, impossible to invade. Or in opening he also played some very dubious extensions. I'm somewhere around 15k by the way. Now I wonder if it's recommendable to play against computers to improve. Could one develop bad habits as the computer plays "unnaturally"? I don't plan to solely play computers, but maybe computer games and such with a human opponent in equal shares. Greetings, Yasin |
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| Author: | tentano [ Wed Feb 25, 2015 8:42 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Playing Computer Go to improve |
Computer opponents are bad at teaching you how to play well against humans. They make very different mistakes, as you saw. It's probably a lot better than not playing at all, but it's a different experience. Definitely always seek out human opponents, though. After all, the computer never feels sad about not finding anyone to play with. |
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| Author: | Bill Spight [ Wed Feb 25, 2015 9:57 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Playing Computer Go to improve |
As long as you take 5 or more stones from a bot or computer program, I think that the risk of picking up bad habits is not too great. You can pick up bad habits from human opponents, as well.
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| Author: | Mike Novack [ Wed Feb 25, 2015 1:15 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Playing Computer Go to improve |
What Bill said is important, but the details suited to your level. a) When playing against one of the AI (go knowledge based) programs, set its playing level so that you are taking five stones and never play against it taking less than three. The problem is that the program will be making systematic errors so you would learn bad habits. If you program allows you to question it, you might take another look at some of those moves it made that you thought unnecessary. That you couldn't see how to gain a benefit by invading or how to punish that dubious extension doesn't mean that there wasn't a way. b) Once you are within nine stones of one of the MCTS based programs you can continue until you have reduced that to three stones and can even consider playing even (but I'd up the program's strength setting to stick to 3 stones). But this advice won't apply to you until you are close to single digits (the MCTS programs become too erratic if asked to play below say 3 kyu ---- that would require a "random rengo" program with go knowledge AI or MCTS evaluating the next move with probability set by a strength slider). c) For computer opponents (given your current level) you don't have to play against bots on KGS. There are free software programs available that can go much higher than 12 kyu. |
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| Author: | yoyoma [ Wed Feb 25, 2015 1:29 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Playing Computer Go to improve |
What is strange about a 12kyu Go player playing strange moves? |
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| Author: | peti29 [ Mon Mar 02, 2015 3:56 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Playing Computer Go to improve |
yoyoma wrote: What is strange about a 12kyu Go player playing strange moves? Yes Besides, I think that moyo-s are a lot more invadable than an average 15k would imagine. |
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| Author: | tunesmith [ Tue Mar 03, 2015 1:45 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Playing Computer Go to improve |
Hi, I can't understand the phrase "take 5 stones from..." Does that mean that you are playing white and the AI has a five-stone handicap? (So you would "take" the deficit from them on the way to winning.) Or does it mean you are playing black and starting with 5 stones on the board (so you are "taking" the five stones that white gives you). |
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| Author: | tentano [ Tue Mar 03, 2015 4:11 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Playing Computer Go to improve |
"take N stones" is when you play black with handicap. "give N stones" is when you play white with handicap. In both cases, it's black who gets the handicap stones. |
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