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| Preventing moyos http://www.lifein19x19.com/viewtopic.php?f=11&t=11989 |
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| Author: | Jonasd [ Thu Jul 02, 2015 12:17 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Preventing moyos |
Hello! I am wondering if there are specific openings or strategies used for when you want to more easily prevent your opponent from making a big moyo. i don't enjoy the kind of games where there is one big piece of territory that i have to invade or lose, or even when that big territory is mine and i have to defend it or lose. I like having options and don't enjoy my winning or losing being so dependent on a single thing! are there specific openings that are more likely to leave the board broken up in smaller territories? I try to start a cross game whenever i can, but I'm not always black! any thoughts are appreciated. |
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| Author: | DrStraw [ Thu Jul 02, 2015 1:14 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Preventing moyos |
Start playing more 3-4 points in the opening and that should help reduce the number of moyos. They will still occur - just not at often. |
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| Author: | Kirby [ Thu Jul 02, 2015 1:41 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Preventing moyos |
If you want to prevent the opponent from making a big moyo, split up his formation before he makes one. |
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| Author: | RobertJasiek [ Thu Jul 02, 2015 6:36 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Preventing moyos |
As Black, split up as early as possible. As White, patiently play every move to restrict the moyo potential. I.e., play moves that reduce e.g. from a distance or prevent easy moyo expansions. However, Black can play every move to expand influence as much as possible while pursuing global development speed; White can try to counter by constructing his own groups solidly so that Black's influence quest runs out of steem. In theory - mistakes can let Black prevail with a multiple killing attack when threatening to build moyos somewhere. |
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| Author: | ez4u [ Thu Jul 02, 2015 7:06 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Preventing moyos |
Realistically you can't always prevent you opponent from making moyos. You can look at many of Takemiya's games where he seems able to conjure moyos out of thin air. Trying too hard will introduce a rigidity to your Go that your opponents will be able to exploit. You can follow the advice here to limit the size of moyos that appear in you games. Ultimately though you need to become comfortable with the idea of reducing and invading their moyos and also defending your own. Seek to become a well-rounded player. |
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| Author: | Kirby [ Thu Jul 02, 2015 7:51 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Preventing moyos |
ez4u wrote: Seek to become a well-rounded player. I like this advice. Don't like moyos? Build moyos! Don't like invading moyos? Let your opponent build one, and invade it. Eventually, you might break your fear. |
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| Author: | gowan [ Fri Jul 03, 2015 1:56 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Preventing moyos |
Some thoughts on the OP's post. First, you will have to learn how to reduce or invade moyos at some point. If you find that your invasions don't work out maybe you had bad timing invading, or you invaded at a bad point. Successful invasions often depend on life-and-death skills, so studying life and death might help. Do you know about reducing moyos? Often reducing is more effective than invading. Often invasions end in gote for the invader but reduction ends in sente for the reducer. Often moyo players are not flexible, they are fixated on the moyo. You can let them have a moyo that is too small by playing territorial moves, nibbling around the edges of the moyo. You can end up making the moyo smaller and you gain a lot of points. It is very hard to surround territory in the center directly. Usually it has to be done by attacking something. If your opponent is trying to make a big territory in the center, play solidly and go through the open parts of the boundary of the center territory. |
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| Author: | Joelnelsonb [ Thu Jul 16, 2015 10:10 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Preventing moyos |
I'm the same way: I've always hated large moyos and don't like it when a game ends with large territories on both sides. I find it very hard to keep the game in perspective and figure out how to win with such large frameworks to compare to one another. The only thing I've learned is that for one, as mentioned, it can't always be helped. Sometimes the best line of play involves building a large structure while your opponent does the same. Also, I push to invade/reduce early on and try to play more offense than defense. This means attacking my opponents shapes before he can expand them at the cost of him doing the same to mine. This will usually make for a tighter, more intricate game with lower scores. |
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| Author: | Dontbtme [ Thu Jul 16, 2015 4:20 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Preventing moyos |
Jonasd wrote: i don't enjoy the kind of games where there is one big piece of territory that i have to invade or lose Maybe your problem is actually thinking you 'have to invade or lose'. Remembering how I played until not so many stones ago, I have a question for you: Do you count the solid and potential territories during your games? If not, do it: you'll be surprised at how an impressive-looking moyo can in fact be really not that big. Even if it's big, if you know how many points there are, you can weigh up your options, as some said before: invade, reduce, or compete with your own moyo. That's two more options that just 'invade or lose' so you do have some leeway, but in general: If invading seems risky (no weaknesses to exploit, no easy looking 3-3 point to welcome you), do it only if you are WAY behind in points and nothing else would be enough. If you're not that far behind, reduce the moyo from the outside while developing (if possible) an influence of your own (which might be useful or not, but can't be harmful, right?). In any case, since invasions are a normal procedure when you're behind, you have to be willing to do it when necessary. If you're not comfortable with that, then you need to study some life and death problems and some classic invasion joseki. But again, you have to take decisions knowingly, and you can only do that by assessing the balance of territories. So You have to count. |
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| Author: | Pippen [ Tue Jul 28, 2015 5:02 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Preventing moyos |
http://senseis.xmp.net/?SplitFuseki |
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| Author: | Pippen [ Tue Jul 28, 2015 5:03 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Preventing moyos |
RobertJasiek wrote: As Black, split up as early as possible. As White, patiently play every move to restrict the moyo potential. I.e., play moves that reduce e.g. from a distance or prevent easy moyo expansions. However, Black can play every move to expand influence as much as possible while pursuing global development speed; White can try to counter by constructing his own groups solidly so that Black's influence quest runs out of steem. In theory - mistakes can let Black prevail with a multiple killing attack when threatening to build moyos somewhere. Why not split with White too? |
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