Life In 19x19
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[review request] too soon to move to 19x19?
http://www.lifein19x19.com/viewtopic.php?f=11&t=13143		 Page 1 of 1
Author:  Popz [ Sun May 01, 2016 6:10 am ]
Post subject:  [review request] too soon to move to 19x19?
Hi,
First post!
I've started learning about Go last month. Religiously kept with reading/tsumegos/9x9 for about 3 weeks, and now decided to skip 13x13 (in great part because I have a 19x19/9x9 reversible goban, and I like playing all online moves with the real stones).

This is one of my first games in 19x19 (I'm black)
http://eidogo.com/#ymERGAJJ
Apart from questionable reading, I feel that I was too eager to do tenukis when vital cuts were unresolved, I was only lucky that my opponent ignored most of them.. I'd love a review!

I find the 19x19 games to be much more enjoyable, and I can have even matches with ~20k players so far.. but I'm wondering if I'm not jumping to the interesting board size too soon. What do you think? Is there a 'rule of thumb' to follow for board size progression?
Author:  EdLee [ Sun May 01, 2016 6:39 am ]
Post subject: 
Hi Popz,

:b21: Connect at R11. Please see Toothpaste and related pages.

:w22: Cut at R11. :)

:b25: :)

:b27: Good. Please see also Elephant's Eye.

:b29: Just reply and block at S16 -- Homework: prove to your satisfaction that locally White is dead shape.

:b35: Bad wedge. ( Common mistake at these levels. )
If :b39: cuts at G3, W can atari at H3 and kill your :b35: stone.

For :w38:, W could also connect at the bottom at G3.
If B cuts on top at G5, W can again atari at H5,
then kill your :b35: stone with J4.

Either way, W can cut off and kill your :b35: wedge -- it's a bad wedge.

With your :b35: wedge, you're trying to split W;
this is a good idea, but with this local shape,
W cannot be split. You need more B stones here to accomplish this.
( Example: if B already had a stone at H3 AND a stone at H5, then your :b35: wedge would work. )

:b43: Hane-block at o15.

:b45: Your local shape: please see again Toothpaste and related pages.

:b49: - :w50: Classic Toothpaste .

:w52: Can you find a local move for W to split you ?
N17 to keep B split.
:w54: Can you find a local W move to reply to :b53: and split you ?
Hane L17.
:b57: Block D6.

:w68: After :w68: , instead of :w72: ( which is too small ),
can you find a local W move to kill your 2 stones at G2 ?
W F2 kills your 2 stones; :w68: is sente if you don't want to lose your 2 stone there.
:b69: After :w68: , which move to play if you don't want to lose your 2 stones at G2 ?
The same vital point, F2.
Author:  Bill Spight [ Sun May 01, 2016 7:50 am ]
Post subject:  Re: [review request] too soon to move to 19x19?
Popz wrote:
Hi,
First post!
I've started learning about Go last month.


Welcome! :D

Quote:
This is one of my first games in 19x19 (I'm black)
http://eidogo.com/#ymERGAJJ


Ed has already provided comments, and this is a truncated game, so I'll not comment on this particular game. :)

Quote:
Apart from questionable reading, I feel that I was too eager to do tenukis when vital cuts were unresolved, I was only lucky that my opponent ignored most of them..


When you are learning and you think you should tenuki, go ahead. :) If your opponent shows you that tenuki was a mistake, then you have learned something. If not playing tenuki is wrong, you may never know.

Quote:
I find the 19x19 games to be much more enjoyable, and I can have even matches with ~20k players so far.. but I'm wondering if I'm not jumping to the interesting board size too soon. What do you think? Is there a 'rule of thumb' to follow for board size progression?


I started out on the 19x19. A friend's go board had as shogi board on the back, so we could have played on a 10x10, but never did. If you enjoy playing on the 19x19, why not?

BTW, at your level there are frequent opportunities for large swings. This is often the case as the dame get filled at the end of the game. My advice is never resign and always fill all the dame.

Good luck! :)
Author:  EdLee [ Sun May 01, 2016 8:02 am ]
Post subject: 
Bill Spight wrote:
...always fill all the dame.
Hi Popz,

This is good advice ( and good habit ) to always fill in all the dame at the very end of the game:
once in a while, very bad things happen when the liberties are gone.
Mentally, you want to always fill in all the dame at the end.
Author:  Popz [ Sun May 01, 2016 9:00 am ]
Post subject:  Re: [review request] too soon to move to 19x19?
wow, thanks a lot for the advice! So much to learn.. :)

@Bill: yup it was an incomplete match, but I didn't have any opponent taking the match until the end, unfortunately.
.. until now! :)
I just finished my first full match (I'm black):

http://eidogo.com/#kVCqmYo5

Question on this one: I failed to score a big capture on the bottom left corner (starting from move 125).
It seemed possible, though..
did I mess up the sequence of moves?

Thanks!
Author:  EdLee [ Sun May 01, 2016 12:33 pm ]
Post subject: 
Hi Popz,

:b9: P17.

:white: 128 D2.

:white: 132 C1.

:b15: P14. ( Don't go after a small piece of White;
split W on a large scale; attack a big group. )

:w18: Is the ladder good for W or B ?
You had to read out the ladder before your :b15: and :b17: -- did you ? :)

:w20: Once again, Toothpaste and related pages.
This result is terrible for Black. ( See :b15: notes. )

:b21: This is a Pass.
If you've been in a car on the freeway,
sometimes you notice dead bugs on the windshield.
White's ponnuki after :w20: is the windshield;
your :b21: is a dead bug on it.

Get a feeling why the sequence leading up to :w20: is a disaster for B.
Look at the shape: W's :w20: is literally a bomb exploding in the midst of B.

:w22: Both of you are very confused about the value of stones.
This is like W spending a move to go after a dead bug on the windshield.
When other areas of the board are wide open.

:b23: Same note. Both the :b17: stone and the :b21: stone are very small (unimportant). Both of you should've tenuki'd on :b21: , :w22:, and :b23: .

Learn the value of the stones.
Don't go after useless stones ( junk food ).
Don't try to save every single stone ( don't throw good money at bad ).
Always look at the big picture ( the whole board perspective ).

To be fair, moves like :b21: , :w22:, and :b23: are common mistakes at these levels. :)

:w24: Same note. Four Passes in a row.

:b25: Same note. Five Passes in a row.

:w26: Finally, someone wakes up! :)

:b27: Classic dead bug on the windshield. ( I know you were trying to kill his eye. :) )

Other kind folks can comment more;
there're enough lessons up to here. :)
Author:  Bill Spight [ Sun May 01, 2016 1:30 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: [review request] too soon to move to 19x19?
Given best play, Black cannot kill White's bottom left corner at move 125. However, Black can kill the White stones on the left side at move 171.
Author:  longshanks [ Mon May 02, 2016 12:13 am ]
Post subject:  Re: [review request] too soon to move to 19x19?
Popz wrote:
Hi,
First post!
I've started learning about Go last month.

(snip)

I find the 19x19 games to be much more enjoyable, and I can have even matches with ~20k players so far.. but I'm wondering if I'm not jumping to the interesting board size too soon. What do you think? Is there a 'rule of thumb' to follow for board size progression?


Hi Popz! Welcome to the game.

When I was 30k I played a bit of 9x9. Then 13x13 before moving to 19x19. I found 9x9 was great for being able to play in my lunch break as when you're a beginner even a 9x9 game takes a loooooong time. Once I got to the point where 9x9 took minutes (which wasn't all that long after) I moved to 13x13 and played that as I found 19x19 games were taking two hours which was too long for my lunchbreak. I enjoyed 19x19 the most but seldom had time to play it so I resorted to playing 19x19 games via DGS. I don't think there's ever a time when it's too soon to move to 19x19 if you are enjoying it. But you learn useful things by playing smaller format, it takes less time and they accentuate different aspects of the game. I found it very daunting at first. It's easy to feel overwhelmed with choice and the board seems huge :)
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