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Another term for "Pivot"?
http://www.lifein19x19.com/viewtopic.php?f=11&t=398		 Page 1 of 1
Author:  judicata [ Sun May 02, 2010 9:08 am ]
Post subject:  Another term for "Pivot"?
Janice Kim (Learn to Play Go Series - very, very good for beginners) calls a stone that prevents an opponent from forming a tigers mouth (in this case, when two stones are already diagonal) the "pivot."

I am wondering whether there is another term (English, Japanese, Korean, or whatever) for it, because "pivot" doesn't seem common. It may have just been a useful way for Kim to describe what a vital point often looks like, but I don't know. Not really a big deal-just curious.


Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$B Pivot
$$ ------------------
$$ . . . . . O . . .|
$$ . . . X O . . B .|
$$ . . X . X O O . .|
$$ . . . . X X X O .|
$$ . . . . . . . X .|
$$ . . . . . . . X .|
$$ . . . . . . . . .|
$$ . . . . . . . . .|
$$ . . . . . . . . .|[/go]
Author:  Kirby [ Sun May 02, 2010 9:37 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Another term for "Pivot"?
I'm not sure about the exact situation you describe (blocking a tiger's mouth), but you could use 急所（きゅうしょ） in Japanese or 급소 in Korean to mean "vital point".

You'll see these words a lot in go problem books (if the answer involves hitting what looks to be a vital point).
Author:  judicata [ Sun May 02, 2010 9:41 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Another term for "Pivot"?
Gotcha, but she uses the term to describe disallowing the tiger's mouth to form, and not just in life & death problems (she also uses "vital point," -- in the illustrated problem, it just happens to be both).

Dunno, we may just say "prevent the tiger's mouth."
Author:  Kirby [ Sun May 02, 2010 9:43 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Another term for "Pivot"?
There's probably a word for it, but I'm not great at go terms.
Author:  Chew Terr [ Sun May 02, 2010 9:43 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Another term for "Pivot"?
I believe I've heard 'point of symmetry', too. Pivot's short and intuitive, though.
Author:  Sverre [ Sun May 02, 2010 9:54 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Another term for "Pivot"?
I would describe the move as a peep, but that is a wider term than pivot, I guess.
Author:  Solomon [ Sun May 02, 2010 10:02 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Another term for "Pivot"?
I'm pretty sure there isn't another way of expressing a move that fits such a description precisely. Though depending on the context, a pivot could also be called a tower peep or a vital point (as seen in your particular example).
Author:  SoDesuNe [ Sun May 02, 2010 10:04 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Another term for "Pivot"?
In 'Attack and Defense' it is the Angle Tesuji.
Author:  tj86430 [ Sun May 02, 2010 10:57 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Another term for "Pivot"?
I haven't seen the term used before, but for some reason, for a non-english speaker, the usage seems very natural. The position kind of "pivots" around that stone.
Author:  fwiffo [ Sun May 02, 2010 10:59 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Another term for "Pivot"?
I don't think pivot is a very good word for that move. I'd use "pivot" to describe a change of direction. In my mind, a second approach after a pincer would be an example of a move I'd call a "pivot".
Author:  karaklis [ Sun May 02, 2010 11:31 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Another term for "Pivot"?
Actually "pivot" is something like "axis", but in the context with go I'd rather call it "key point". Here it is a special kind of key point though.
Author:  Nikolas73 [ Sun May 02, 2010 11:34 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Another term for "Pivot"?
fwiffo wrote:
I don't think pivot is a very good word for that move. I'd use "pivot" to describe a change of direction. In my mind, a second approach after a pincer would be an example of a move I'd call a "pivot".


Agreed - this is the first time I have heard the term "pivot" and when I read this thread title I thought it had meant something else.

Sorry I do not know a better term for the move you showed... I suppose we could say it is a kind of peep.

Nik
Author:  fwiffo [ Sun May 02, 2010 12:36 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Another term for "Pivot"?
The onomatopoeia I would use for that move is "poke", but that would fit any shape poking move.
Author:  Bill Spight [ Sun May 02, 2010 12:48 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Another term for "Pivot"?
judicata wrote:
Janice Kim (Learn to Play Go Series - very, very good for beginners) calls a stone that prevents an opponent from forming a tigers mouth (in this case, when two stones are already diagonal) the "pivot."

I am wondering whether there is another term (English, Japanese, Korean, or whatever) for it, because "pivot" doesn't seem common. It may have just been a useful way for Kim to describe what a vital point often looks like, but I don't know. Not really a big deal-just curious.


Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$B Pivot
$$ ------------------
$$ . . . . . O . . .|
$$ . . . X O . . B .|
$$ . . X . X O O . .|
$$ . . . . X X X O .|
$$ . . . . . . . X .|
$$ . . . . . . . X .|
$$ . . . . . . . . .|
$$ . . . . . . . . .|
$$ . . . . . . . . .|[/go]


I would call this play a peek. :)

But see http://senseis.xmp.net/?Jaw
Author:  John Fairbairn [ Sun May 02, 2010 12:56 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Another term for "Pivot"?
The Japanese term is ago wo tsuku = " to strike the chin", though the real meaning behind that is " to deliver an uppercut". In some cases you can use kado (corner angle). It is most definitely not a peep or a poke, and I think pivot has usually been reserved in English for a Tennozan move, a vantage point between two opposing positions,
Author:  Violence [ Mon May 03, 2010 1:55 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Another term for "Pivot"?
Er... doesn't Janice Kim like to make up weird terminology in her books?

I believe that on the page after "the pivot" is introduced, she also refers to, "the alien shape."
Author:  Bill Spight [ Mon May 03, 2010 2:02 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Another term for "Pivot"?
Violence wrote:
Er... doesn't Janice Kim like to make up weird terminology in her books?

I believe that on the page after "the pivot" is introduced, she also refers to, "the alien shape."


Making up English go terminology is a pastime for a number of people. English go literature is still a new field. We will eventually have an established vocabulary. :)
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