Life In 19x19
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too new to play?
http://www.lifein19x19.com/viewtopic.php?f=11&t=4964		 Page 1 of 1
Author:  Donovitch [ Wed Nov 09, 2011 5:22 pm ]
Post subject:  too new to play?
Last week I was introduced to the game by a friend that teaches Chinese children English. I like the concepts of the game and understand most of the basic principles. The past few days I have been playing atari based games with ais on the net to try to train myself to start to see things before they happen.

Today though I registered on a net go site and started an unranked game with the title "new to go" on it and got chewed out for being so new and not taking lessons from someone. In between my job and working on my degree I really don't have time for anything outside the realm of casual. Should I just cut my losses, return the Go board I bought the other day, and just find something else to do?
Author:  xed_over [ Wed Nov 09, 2011 5:31 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: too new to play?
ppfft... you are never too new to play

forget that person and play against someone else. you'll have more fun.
Author:  jts [ Wed Nov 09, 2011 5:32 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: too new to play?
Donovitch wrote:
Last week I was introduced to the game by a friend that teaches Chinese children English. I like the concepts of the game and understand most of the basic principles. The past few days I have been playing atari based games with ais on the net to try to train myself to start to see things before they happen.

Today though I registered on a net go site and started an unranked game with the title "new to go" on it and got chewed out for being so new and not taking lessons from someone. In between my job and working on my degree I really don't have time for anything outside the realm of casual. Should I just cut my losses, return the Go board I bought the other day, and just find something else to do?


Sounds bizarre. Most people don't take formal lessons, and people who do generally don't take them until they've been playing go for a year, or longer.

Possibly you misunderstood - maybe someone was urging you to practice on a smaller board, or offering to give you a teaching game, before you started to play go on a 19x19 board for the first time.

By the way, it makes sense to play a ranked game - it's hard to get a competitive game if the server doesn't know how strong you are.
Author:  Donovitch [ Wed Nov 09, 2011 5:34 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: too new to play?
so like a 9v9 game at 30kyu I think it is for the bottom?
Author:  emeraldemon [ Wed Nov 09, 2011 5:43 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: too new to play?
Yes, 9x9 is a good size and 30 kyu is typically the rank given to beginners. Can I ask which website you tried? Here's some good ones:

Sensei's Library: a go wiki, lots of information, slightly disorganized
http://senseis.xmp.net/

KGS: possibly the most popular go server in the west, good features:
http://www.gokgs.com/
Author:  Bill Spight [ Wed Nov 09, 2011 5:44 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: too new to play?
Donovitch wrote:
Today though I registered on a net go site and started an unranked game with the title "new to go" on it and got chewed out for being so new and not taking lessons from someone. In between my job and working on my degree I really don't have time for anything outside the realm of casual. Should I just cut my losses, return the Go board I bought the other day, and just find something else to do?


Whoever chewed you out is a rude SOB. Illegitimi non carborundum.

There are many players online who are also beginners or who remember what it was like. There are many more of them than people like the one you met up with. Find some of them and have a good time. :)

As you suggest, 9x9 games are good. You learn some tactics, and the games do not last very long. :)

Welcome to the world of go! :)
Author:  cyclops [ Wed Nov 09, 2011 6:03 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: too new to play?
Bill Spight wrote:
Illegitimi non carborundum.
......


Latina Billius dubiosa esse!

Maybe he means Illegitimi non carborundi. = ( maybe ) The illegal ones shouldn't be burned ???
Author:  Bill Spight [ Wed Nov 09, 2011 6:47 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: too new to play?
cyclops wrote:
Bill Spight wrote:
Illegitimi non carborundum.
......


Latina Billius dubiosa esse!

Maybe he means Illegitimi non carborundi. = ( maybe ) The illegal ones shouldn't be burned ???


It's fake Latin, and not original with me. ;)

Don't let the bastards grind you down.
Author:  Mivo [ Wed Nov 09, 2011 7:49 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: too new to play?
Donovitch wrote:
Today though I registered on a net go site and started an unranked game with the title "new to go" on it and got chewed out for being so new and not taking lessons from someone. In between my job and working on my degree I really don't have time for anything outside the realm of casual. Should I just cut my losses, return the Go board I bought the other day, and just find something else to do?


No, no. The only thing that happened is that you bumped into an unpleasant person. Don't let people like that ruin your experience. Don't give them so much power over your decisions. It may only have been someone who was frustrated and decided to take it out on you. Shrug it off.

If you're familiar with the basics (for example, you know how to play a 9x9 game), you're ready to play. KGS (http://www.gokgs.com) is a good place to start. Not everyone is friendly, but many people are. And those are the ones that matter. They have a Beginner and a Help room, the latter of which should pop up automatically, and the former you can get to from the "Rooms" menu. You can ask for someone to play a beginner game with you or you can post one yourself. It may require some patience. You could also post your KGS nickname here with some information on when you'll be around, and perhaps someone will set up a game with you.

Also, there are turn-based servers, like OGS and DGS, at http://www.online-go.com/ and http://www.dragongoserver.net/. On these servers, you don't play in real time, but you and your opponent make moves when they get around to it. It's exactly like correspondence chess, for example. As you are starting out, you are likely to learn very fast, so turn-based games may be too slow for you, but then again, 9x9 games are fast even there.

You'll find that the percentage of genuinely nice people is fairly high in the Go community, especially if you compare it to other online gaming communities. The anonymity breeds some dubious behaviours, but just remember that attention is a reward, so don't give it to those who don't deserve it. :)
Author:  Joaz Banbeck [ Wed Nov 09, 2011 8:13 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: too new to play?
As others have said, you got truly undeserved criticism. Announcing yourself as a beginner was the proper thing to do, and nobody can fault you for it or any low level play that follows. You bumped into one of the rare jerks who exists in the go community. Most go players are way more polite than that.
Ignore him, and continue learning the game. I recommend using the lifein19x19 room on KGS.
Also, when you have played a game, post it in the 'improve your game/game analysis' subforum here on L19. You'll get lots of constructive feedback.

Just don't use improper Latin grammar around here. We're nice people, but some things even we don't tolerate.
Author:  hailthorn011 [ Wed Nov 09, 2011 8:19 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: too new to play?
Donovitch wrote:
so like a 9v9 game at 30kyu I think it is for the bottom?


I'd be willing to help you learn how to play better when you're available for such things. I'm not the best teacher in the world, but if you're new to the game, I'm sure I could help!
Author:  Dr Burns [ Thu Nov 10, 2011 8:56 am ]
Post subject:  Re: too new to play?
Donovitch,

Sounds like you had a run-in with someone being plain ol' nasty. You gotta start somewhere, and really, having a "personal trainer?" Maybe, if you were born to a Meijin? At the end of the day Go is a game, a rather good and challenging one, but a game none the less. I do recommend you get some teaching, for right now a beginners book or two if you have time will do. Beyond that, keep on playing. I kinda worked my way from 9x9 to 13x13, and now I feel confident enough to play badly on a 19x19 board.

The long and short of it, ignore the sad sap and keep on having fun learning and playing. :D


God bless,
Adam
Author:  Bille [ Sun Nov 20, 2011 1:27 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: too new to play?
Indeed, this situation is pretty weird, though there exist plenty of rude snobs that'll break you down at the very beginning of any activity, when you're a total noob. I'm a noob, too. But I have never taken the game so seriously, so I wouldn't take offence and let myself down because of some stupid moron :D Just relax and keep learning. Believe me, no clever man would say anything like that to you, and this game needs some good brain, so be sure you'll beat this bastard one day :tmbup:
Author:  Sighris [ Wed Nov 23, 2011 11:49 am ]
Post subject:  Re: too new to play?
Too new to play? Everybody who has ever played WeiQi/Go was new to the game at one point... everybody has a 1st game!

Just ignore rude people.

However it is good to start at the right level, and not be rude to higher level players by boring them or wasting their time. I suggest to all beginners that the look on-line for tutorials, there are many, and several have already been mentioned. I think even Yahoo:Games -> "board games" -> Go has a decent tutorial. Find one you like, and learn as much as you can. Another very good thing to do (IMO) is to down-load some software and play against your computer when you are between the rank of absolute beginner and say about 12k - heck, even when I got to 10k and 9k I sometimes went back to Igowin to practice my "life and death"/tactical skills. You can down-load Igowin for free (good 9x9 computer software), and later when you get better I encourage you to purchase "Many Faces of Go" (the 19x19 version, plus many other good features such as Joseki guides).

BTW, I play on KGS, and I will be happy to give a few beginner lessons or answer questions, but I'm barely better than 9k on KGS, so I can't always give the best advice, but I know I can help 30k to 12k players a lot.

Happy Holidays everybody!
Sighris
Author:  Grondhammar [ Wed Jan 11, 2012 8:43 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: too new to play?
Thank you Donovitch for posting this question, and thank you to everyone who answered and gave such good resources and advice. I had the same experience about a month ago, though I secretly continued to play and read about the game. It is sad that there are those who would derail the interest of a new player as flippantly as some do.

Best wishes to you all, and thanks again.
Author:  plamer [ Fri Jan 13, 2012 7:55 am ]
Post subject:  Re: too new to play?
Look at http://361points.com/firststeps/ I really think its a good plan for starting. And never fall for those wanna-be-bad-arse... Go is a spiritual game - they obviously miss that part :)
Author:  Bill Spight [ Fri Jan 13, 2012 8:49 am ]
Post subject:  Re: too new to play?
Donovitch wrote:
Last week I was introduced to the game by a friend that teaches Chinese children English. I like the concepts of the game and understand most of the basic principles. The past few days I have been playing atari based games with ais on the net to try to train myself to start to see things before they happen.

Today though I registered on a net go site and started an unranked game with the title "new to go" on it and got chewed out for being so new and not taking lessons from someone. In between my job and working on my degree I really don't have time for anything outside the realm of casual. Should I just cut my losses, return the Go board I bought the other day, and just find something else to do?


Your opponent was unspeakably rude. How do parents react when their children start to speak? They say things like, "That's right, Lady Gaga." Not, "Speak more clearly."

There are plenty of beginners on the net with whom you can have a lot of fun. :)

Welcome to go! :)

Edit: I see that I already responded some time back. I hope that Donovitch is enjoying the game now. :)
Author:  Dokuganryu [ Fri Jan 13, 2012 9:22 am ]
Post subject:  Re: too new to play?
If You are worried about losing to other humans, You can try to play with this program http://www.smart-games.com/igowin.html
It is a free, simple and good program playing on 9x9 board, that at first gives You handicap stones, so it won't be to hard. I played this program for a few days before deciding to play other people, and it served its purpose.
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