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Etiquette for one of the guaranteed 50 lost games?
http://www.lifein19x19.com/viewtopic.php?f=11&t=6102		 Page 1 of 1
Author:  Donovitch [ Sun Jun 03, 2012 12:17 am ]
Post subject:  Etiquette for one of the guaranteed 50 lost games?
I have played here and there and I would say that one of the biggest things I have at least learned so far is that I shouldn't take it personal that I am going to lose badly alot. I have come to terms with this mostly and as much as I'd really like to play challenging games where I am honestly stretching myself instead of just struggling to not get squashed, that is just sort of the reality of it. But given this fact, what is proper etiquette for approaching games with others knowing essentially that I am wasting their time on an unchallenging game?

I know if I am genuinely trying that even in losing I am laying the framework for getting better eventually, but the poor player that dominates me with their eyes half open gets nothing out of it.
Author:  EdLee [ Sun Jun 03, 2012 12:25 am ]
Post subject: 
Learning when to resign is an important part of Go. It's one of the very first things inseis must learn at the start.

General guideline: don't do unto others what you would not wish them do unto you.

If your opponent is a good friend or teacher and they mean well, they will generally suggest you resign at an appropriate time;
likewise, if you resign too early, they also would suggest you continue to play.
As you improve, your timing to resign will (hopefully) also improve.

(About a week ago, in an international pro tourney, a top Chinese pro resigned a 0.5 game to Cho Chi-kun 9p...
Knowing when to resign is LEVEL. :))
Author:  Zombie [ Sun Jun 03, 2012 7:28 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Etiquette for one of the guaranteed 50 lost games?
I'd play it to the end if I'm still new. It's bound to annoy some people, but playing it out is the only way to ever learn a proper endgame.
Author:  jts [ Sun Jun 03, 2012 8:06 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Etiquette for one of the guaranteed 50 lost games?
Hey Donovitch! My advice is going to differ from Ed's. Basically, never resign. If they weren't willing to play with you, they shouldn't have offered a teaching game, or they should have chosen different time settings. Your ideas about when you're winning and when you're losing are not going to be that accurate yet. Against stronger players offering a teaching game, of course, you were not expecting to win from the beginning, and they are quite capable of suggesting to you a good time to resign and begin the review; but if you get into the habit of resigning when you feel hopeless, this will carry over into your games with players of similar strength, where it's totally unwarranted.

When you can count (predict the score) as accurately as a professional, then you can start resigning +0.5 games. When you can count as accurately as Ed, you can start resigning +10 games. When you can count as accurately as I, you can start resigning +30 games. :-? Until then, never surrender!

Besides, resigning doesn't magically give you experience... :roll: "Lose your first fifty games quickly" does not mean that if you resign on the tenth move fifty times, you will suddenly become strong like bull! Playing a solid endgame fifty times is going to help you a lot, whether or not the game was decided already.
Author:  BobC [ Sun Jun 03, 2012 9:14 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Etiquette for one of the guaranteed 50 lost games?
why only 50?..

I lost all but 25 of my first 500 games on OGS :(
Author:  karaklis [ Sun Jun 03, 2012 9:46 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Etiquette for one of the guaranteed 50 lost games?
BobC wrote:
I lost all but 25 of my first 500 games on OGS :(

Well, in that case it seems that you cannot avoid doing some tsumego to improve :grumpy:
Author:  yoyoma [ Sun Jun 03, 2012 10:03 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Etiquette for one of the guaranteed 50 lost games?
I suggest you ask your opponent, either before the game or maybe during it when you think it might be a good place. Also if it's a teaching game you could ask other what-if questions.

When I play beginners I do the same, ask them if they want me to make comments/suggestions during the game.

A great benefit of playing humans instead of computers eh? Communicate with them! :mrgreen:
Author:  BobC [ Sun Jun 03, 2012 10:38 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Etiquette for one of the guaranteed 50 lost games?
karaklis wrote:
BobC wrote:
I lost all but 25 of my first 500 games on OGS :(

Well, in that case it seems that you cannot avoid doing some tsumego to improve :grumpy:


I quite like doing Tsumego. Over the last two years I've averaged five a day (often in spurts). They do help..
Author:  Numsgil [ Wed Jun 27, 2012 4:55 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Etiquette for one of the guaranteed 50 lost games?
Don't resign until you've counted the score and know where you stand. If you count and don't see a way to get 10 points back somehow, then it's time to resign.

If you can't count, don't resign unless you've just lost some huge 50 stone dragon. It's just too easy to have your gut be wrong by +/- 30 points, even at relatively high levels. But you should probably learn to count :) It doesn't need to be exact. One easyish method is to round the territory of groups on the board to the nearest multiple of 10 and keep track of them that way. That should help ballparking the figure.
Author:  Bill Spight [ Wed Jun 27, 2012 5:05 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Etiquette for one of the guaranteed 50 lost games?
Donovitch wrote:
I have played here and there and I would say that one of the biggest things I have at least learned so far is that I shouldn't take it personal that I am going to lose badly alot. I have come to terms with this mostly and as much as I'd really like to play challenging games where I am honestly stretching myself instead of just struggling to not get squashed, that is just sort of the reality of it. But given this fact, what is proper etiquette for approaching games with others knowing essentially that I am wasting their time on an unchallenging game?

I know if I am genuinely trying that even in losing I am laying the framework for getting better eventually, but the poor player that dominates me with their eyes half open gets nothing out of it.


Remember, we have all been where you are. :) Any player who remembers that will be happy to play at least a few game with beginners from time to time.

Also, go has a very good handicapping feature, that can be adjusted so that the odds of winning will be around 50:50. A lot of people do not want to give more than 9 stones, but then it's a teaching game. Don't worry about your opponents. Just remember to play beginners when it is your turn. :)
Author:  pommjuicy [ Wed Jun 27, 2012 5:45 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Etiquette for one of the guaranteed 50 lost games?
If you're playing and you feel you have no chance of winning, you probably aren't handicapping the game properly. Find someone closer to your rank, perhaps?

If you don't want to "waste" your opponents' time, play on a smaller board (13x13 is perfect for this). The games will take significantly less time, but you'll learn just as much as you would from a full board.
Author:  quote [ Sun Jul 08, 2012 8:08 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Etiquette for one of the guaranteed 50 lost games?
This is something that's a big thing for me, too. I was challenged by a shodan recently with a 9-stone handicap, which I was grateful for. At the same time, that huge a difference of skill was just too difficult to overcome, and I didn't know how far into the whole I should grind myself. He was Japanese, too, so I couldn't ask him...!
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