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Should I record my tournament games?
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Author:  xcaissa [ Sun Jul 22, 2012 2:59 pm ]
Post subject:  Should I record my tournament games?
Would you advise me, a beginner of only 8 weeks standing (KGS 19kyu) to record my games at Bonn in the upcoming weekend tournament? That would allow later analysis but I have not played a face to face game before so might it be too much of a distraction? On the other hand, as a chess player I am used to recording my chess games. I will not be able to remember all the moves I am certain of that!

[admin]
This question was tacked on to another thread about a particular kifu. I figured that it would get better answers if it were in its own thread.
-JB
[/admin]
Author:  speedchase [ Sun Jul 22, 2012 5:34 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Should I record my tournament games?
I would say probably not. If you aren't strong enough to remember them without recording, then it would probably distract you.
Author:  LocoRon [ Sun Jul 22, 2012 7:23 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Should I record my tournament games?
After my own experiences trying to record games, I really don't think it's a good idea.

Certainly, I wouldn't recommend "testing the waters" at your very first tournament!

If you can, I highly recommend trying to record a casual game, and seeing how well you fare.

If you can't get an in-person game before the tournament, you could even try manually recording an online game.....
Author:  sefo [ Sun Jul 22, 2012 8:09 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Should I record my tournament games?
Tournament games = serious games. It's always a good idea to review those.

You can try printing some qipu: http://senseis.xmp.net/?GameRecordForm
and record some games at home first to get used to it.

If your tournament games are not fast, give it a try.
Author:  Bill Spight [ Sun Jul 22, 2012 9:34 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Should I record my tournament games?
Yes. Absolutely. :)

Good luck!
Author:  Boidhre [ Sun Jul 22, 2012 10:12 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Should I record my tournament games?
I recorded games on my iPad at my first tournament. I don't know if it impacted my performance greatly but I played at 2 stones stronger than my theoretical EGF rank based on my KGS rank and won 3 out of 2 with handicap-1, so I think it didn't affect me much. :)
Author:  xcaissa [ Mon Jul 23, 2012 1:48 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Should I record my tournament games?
Many thanks to all for these helpful replies/ideas/suggestions.

I'll try some practice this week recording from online games and/or versus computer engine.

The Ipad idea is interesting - initially I was shocked :o as I'm familiar with competition chess where electronic devices are banned from the playing areas and a game is automatically lost no questions asked if a player's mobile is inadvertently left on and then rings.

If you don't mind me asking Boidhre, what app did you use to record on the Ipad with? I have SmartGo and Champion Go and the latter seems easier to use for recording purposes as there is a simple 'undo' button for use in cases where I might make an input mistake. Having recorded games would be great but not if I spend too long on the recording at the expense of the thinking as one or two replies have intimated :) However both apps contain playing engines so maybe they would not be allowed for use in competition game recording?

Oh well, I shall try a few things out prior to the comp and once again thanks for all the great thoughts.

cheers
Author:  cata [ Mon Jul 23, 2012 3:27 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Should I record my tournament games?
Assuming it's a reasonable-length time control, there's absolutely no reason not to record your games, and if you won't remember them without a record, then that's an extremely good reason to do so.

Having been to a few Go tournaments I have yet to see anyone quibble about any manner of electronic recording; cheating just doesn't seem to be on anyone's radar. So if I were you I would just use SmartGo or Champion Go to record and not think twice about it.
Author:  HKA [ Mon Jul 23, 2012 6:32 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Should I record my tournament games?
You should definitely record your serious tournament games. The question is - how?

The ability to remember your games and replay them is a skill that is good to develop. It is independant of playing strength. This may be putting it a bit strongly - certainly it is easier to remember your games as you get stronger - but I have seen players around 10 kyu who have developed this ability quite well - certainly better than some dan players like myself, who have always recorded games.

I think Ipads (plug for SmartGo Kifu) and in the day, palm pilots are excellent tools for this, and of course paper and pencil work quite well. When I started playing in tournaments, I played too fast and recording my games were actually helpful in slowing me down as opposed to distracting me.

Even the best players cannot recall their games forever - best practice is to make sure you have a record for future study. If you must record do so, if you can remember, that is better for a variety of reasons. You should usually take some time and record your memory at some point that day before it fades.

Yeah the advice about not worrying about it the first tournament is a good warning - but if you are used to it from chess events, the transition should not be difficult.
Author:  Actorios [ Mon Jul 23, 2012 9:34 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Should I record my tournament games?
My two cents:
Yes. I would recommend to record your games if you feel like it. Learning from games seems to me more important than the raw result of the tournament. Reviewing games from tournament is always good food for thought. When you are close from the end your dedicated time for the tournament, just stop recording and focus on the game. I'm sure the beginning of the game will be already excellent to review.
Author:  Actorios [ Mon Jul 23, 2012 9:36 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Should I record my tournament games?
Smartgo is an excellent tool for recording. I use the iPad version (Smartgo Kifu) personally in tournaments.
Author:  SpongeBob [ Mon Jul 23, 2012 1:15 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Should I record my tournament games?
I would record the game. Just do not try to record the whole game. Recording requires extra time and concentration, so your strength suffers.

I usually record fuseki and stop somewhere in middlegame. By then I have made enough mistakes to learn from in a later review.
Author:  jts [ Mon Jul 23, 2012 1:25 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Should I record my tournament games?
I recommend not worry about recording your game during the game. Focus on the game during the game. After the game, try to replay the game with your opponent (hopefully you'll have time for at least a few moves). Record as many moves as the two of you can remember together.
Author:  Joaz Banbeck [ Mon Jul 23, 2012 2:04 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Should I record my tournament games?
SpongeBob wrote:
I would record the game. Just do not try to record the whole game. Recording requires extra time and concentration, so your strength suffers.

I usually record fuseki and stop somewhere in middlegame. By then I have made enough mistakes to learn from in a later review.


I agree with this. I try to get the first 50 or 60 moves on paper. ( At that point I usually have enough errors to have lost several games - so the pros tell me ) Then I abandon the kifu and take photos with my 'droid every 15 or 20 moves.
Author:  xcaissa [ Mon Jul 23, 2012 2:21 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Should I record my tournament games?
More great advice here thanks to all - I'm going to practice recording and if I think it will not put me off from game thinking too much I'll use Smartgo to record the first 50-60 moves - I can possibly snap selected positions after that on Ipad - a good idea that I had not thought of - there is some pleasure to be found in a steep learning curve which is where I'm at at present :)
Author:  EdLee [ Mon Jul 23, 2012 6:20 pm ]
Post subject: 
xcaissa wrote:
I'm going to practice recording...
Yes, practice (before the actual tourney) is very important.
Another method worth trying is the simple point-and-shoot digital camera --
make sure it does NOT have a POP-OUT lens (mechanical movements drain the battery much faster),
that it does have a very fast response time (under 2 seconds total from Off to photo taken and back to Off again),
disable the flash, disable all beeps and chimes, use the lowest resolutions (e.g. VGA 640x480) --
advantages: no need to "find" the moves on your iGadget/galaxy/Surface/laptop,
much less "thinking" (conserve your brain power for the actual game), less chance of recording wrong moves.
I've been doing this since 2007, 5 years, and have taken tens of thousands of photos this way. :)
Author:  Joaz Banbeck [ Mon Jul 23, 2012 7:13 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Should I record my tournament games?
One opponent of mine just brought a laptop with integrated camera and set it beside the board. It would be tedious to reconstruct the game, but it is then zero distraction.
Author:  xed_over [ Sat Jul 28, 2012 7:16 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Should I record my tournament games?
I've recorded all my tournament games since I started (sometime around 2003), and beginning about 17k.

Yes, its distracting. And I figure I lose about 2-4 stones in "handicap" strength (not as much any more, but more back then). But to me its worth it to have a record for later review.

And with practice, I've since gotten better with remembering most of my games (but I'd still rather record them for now).
Author:  virgo [ Mon Aug 06, 2012 4:55 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Should I record my tournament games?
IMHO, do it for several reasons :

* You can have a review by a stronger player when you want.
* According to my experience, touching a screen after playing don't distract me.
* You can more easily disconnect from a local series of moves to have a more global view (depends of people).
* ...

I have recorded all my games @ EGC excepted one because I made a mis-mannipulation and the soft get back without saving. (I won 7 games out of 9)
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