For me the problem was that "two eyes" concept.
I've since learned to ignore the number of eyes and just read fillable/non-fillable liberties. Otherwise I'd never go past 8k in goproblems.
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| Question on if this is seki http://www.lifein19x19.com/viewtopic.php?f=11&t=6898 |
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| Author: | tacttic [ Thu Oct 04, 2012 4:42 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Question on if this is seki |
I was working through the problems on 321go.org and ran into this. It stated that this would be seki. But from what I can tell the white stones have two eyes and therefore not in seki. What am I missing here? Is the one eye too larger? How does this work? Please help me understand. |
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| Author: | speedchase [ Thu Oct 04, 2012 4:44 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Question on if this is seki |
White can't capture black. Black can't capture white. Therefore it is seki. |
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| Author: | tacttic [ Thu Oct 04, 2012 4:48 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Question on if this is seki |
I just saw why. I thought I was going insane. And thanks for the quick reply. I didn't realize that this left the space open to capture the rest using white's eye. |
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| Author: | EdLee [ Fri Oct 05, 2012 2:14 am ] |
| Post subject: | |
tacttic wrote: ...from what I can tell the white stones have two eyes... Good. Now you know the W stones don't have 2 eyes; they only have 1.
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| Author: | Alguien [ Fri Oct 05, 2012 2:40 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Question on if this is seki |
For me the problem was that "two eyes" concept. I've since learned to ignore the number of eyes and just read fillable/non-fillable liberties. Otherwise I'd never go past 8k in goproblems.
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| Author: | xed_over [ Fri Oct 05, 2012 10:07 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Question on if this is seki |
Alguien wrote: For me the problem was that "two eyes" concept. care to elaborate on your initial confusion? several teachers I know now teach beginners "two rooms" (when building a house [of territory]) instead of eyes. Do you think that might have made a difference in your understanding? |
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| Author: | jts [ Fri Oct 05, 2012 10:45 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Question on if this is seki |
I think he's referring to false eyes, which "don't count" as eyes (or rooms, or scuba tanks, or whatever), except for when they do. |
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| Author: | PeterPeter [ Fri Oct 05, 2012 10:56 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Question on if this is seki |
xed_over wrote: several teachers I know now teach beginners "two rooms" (when building a house [of territory]) instead of eyes. Do you think that might have made a difference in your understanding? I think of them as 2 lungs, without which the group suffocates. |
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| Author: | Codexus [ Fri Oct 05, 2012 3:23 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Question on if this is seki |
Maybe the OP thought of the 5 spaces in the lower left area as an eye since white completely surrounds it. I can still remember making that mistake when I was just starting playing and losing a group I had thought was unconditionally alive. A space larger than 1 intersection probably shouldn't be called an eye yet. We call them that anyway when there is no way to prevent such spaces from becoming a real eye (and no point in playing the moves to do so) but I can see how that can be confusing for beginners. |
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| Author: | xed_over [ Fri Oct 05, 2012 3:46 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Question on if this is seki |
Codexus wrote: Maybe the OP thought of the 5 spaces in the lower left area as an eye since white completely surrounds it. yeah, that's why I no longer teach "surround to capture". instead, I teach you must suffocate your opponents stones to capture. surround is too ambiguous in English PeterPeter wrote: I think of them as 2 lungs, without which the group suffocates. I teach that lines coming out from each stone are "breathing straws". when all are blocked the stone/group suffocates and dies. from http://senseis.xmp.net/?Liberty Quote: Liberty in Chinese is 气 ("Qi" in pinyin), which literally translates to "breath". The thought is that stones need breathing space and that once the last breathing space is removed, the stones die.
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| Author: | Bonobo [ Fri Oct 05, 2012 4:37 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Question on if this is seki |
xed_over wrote: [..] I teach that lines coming out from each stone are "breathing straws". when all are blocked the stone/group suffocates and dies. This is how my parents first taught me Go in 1964 or ’65 (I just wish I hadn’t had so many and so long pauses between then and now!) |
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