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What one thing do you wish you had known when starting?
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Author:  NPW [ Wed Dec 12, 2012 2:45 pm ]
Post subject:  What one thing do you wish you had known when starting?
When you become good at something you sometimes look back and realise that there were certain things you wished you had known or appreciated right from the beginning. If you had known this you might have made progress much quicker or much easier. Is there anything like this which experienced players can pass on to us new players that might help us?
Author:  xed_over [ Wed Dec 12, 2012 2:50 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: What one thing do you wish you had known when starting?
to not feel shy, embarrassed or afraid to lose about playing with a stronger player when he offers to play you anytime.

many stronger players really enjoy playing with/teaching weaker players.

I would have been much stronger much sooner. He moved away and I lost my opportunity.
Author:  EdLee [ Wed Dec 12, 2012 2:59 pm ]
Post subject: 
NPW, similar to xed_over's feelings, I wish I had a good pro teacher from the very beginning --
would've saved me around 3-6 years of undoing my bad habits.
Author:  Boidhre [ Wed Dec 12, 2012 3:08 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: What one thing do you wish you had known when starting?
I'm not experienced or strong but:

What I wish I'd known at 20k:

1) Tenuki is always an option. Following your opponent around the board is an easy way to lose. Conversely, there are times when you *have* to respond locally.

2) Sometimes it's best to leave some stones die in order to get the initiative somewhere else on the board. Trying to save every stone is a bad, bad thing.

3) Counting is generally a good idea, especially in the endgame.

4) Read out situations on the board when it's your opponent's turn. Read out situations when watching the games of others. Always be reading. :P
Author:  SoDesuNe [ Wed Dec 12, 2012 3:09 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: What one thing do you wish you had known when starting?
A comprehensive book list of what to read at what level. Would have saved me a lot of money (for useless books) and time.
Author:  snorri [ Wed Dec 12, 2012 3:11 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: What one thing do you wish you had known when starting?
I wish I knew go existed when I was a child, and where to play.
Author:  Uberdude [ Wed Dec 12, 2012 3:14 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: What one thing do you wish you had known when starting?
That Go is highly addictive and will take over your life.
Author:  badukJr [ Wed Dec 12, 2012 3:55 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: What one thing do you wish you had known when starting?
Uberdude wrote:
That Go is highly addictive and will take over your life.


I wish this were true. Then we wouldn't have a player crisis.

I wish I'd known that of all the people I introduced the game to in the club and taught up to 10k-15k would suddenly stop playing go.
Author:  Phoenix [ Wed Dec 12, 2012 4:10 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: What one thing do you wish you had known when starting?
badukJr wrote:
Uberdude wrote:
That Go is highly addictive and will take over your life.


I wish this were true. Then we wouldn't have a player crisis.

I wish I'd known that of all the people I introduced the game to in the club and taught up to 10k-15k would suddenly stop playing go.


There's a part of learning Go that is like a trial. You can learn everything about the rules and techniques you want, but putting it together on a board against an opponent is difficult and unrewarding at first. I've felt like giving up Go more than once. Now giving up Go would be a horrible, cruel punishment. It's this part that pushes away so many potential new players.

Chess has this advantage: that you can learn how the pieces move, how to capture and that the point is to checkmate the king. From that point on there's a learning curve, but you can always put pieces on a board and play with no real confusion or sense of overwhelming despair.

In preparation for when I get my club started (coming early 2013!), I'm going through the development of a game and trying to figure out the simplest, most explanatory way of guiding newcomers through them. Lay stones on a board in public or make neat flyers, and you have newbies. Make the introduction fun and you have prospective new players. Player retention in the next stage is what's hardest after that. :sad:

Back to the topic at hand! The one thing I wish I would have learned is how important and enjoyable tsumego are. It's been years! I'd be mid-dan by now! :shock:
Author:  Boidhre [ Wed Dec 12, 2012 4:38 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: What one thing do you wish you had known when starting?
Phoenix wrote:
Chess has this advantage: that you can learn how the pieces move, how to capture and that the point is to checkmate the king. From that point on there's a learning curve, but you can always put pieces on a board and play with no real confusion or sense of overwhelming despair.


Very few people who learn how to play chess take it up as a hobby. In this country anyway.
Author:  Phoenix [ Wed Dec 12, 2012 6:06 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: What one thing do you wish you had known when starting?
Boidhre wrote:
Very few people who learn how to play chess take it up as a hobby. In this country anyway.


That's a good point. Does anyone have percentages regarding the ratio of active Go and Chess players in different countries? A quick search has revealed nothing for me. :-?
Author:  Joaz Banbeck [ Wed Dec 12, 2012 8:16 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: What one thing do you wish you had known when starting?
I wish that I had known that having five stones in a row did not make a difference.
Author:  Twitchy Go [ Wed Dec 12, 2012 11:07 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: What one thing do you wish you had known when starting?
I can't really say this is something I wish I'd known. But it is what I have been doing and except for a period of time in the summer where I had no time to play Go I've been improving at a decent(I think) rate since I began in January.
1.Tsuemego are fun! Do them. Reading is your bread and butter.
2a. Play a lot of games. You can't get strong in secret, get out there, get your nose bloodied and try your whimsical ideas. Have fun!
2b. Review these games. Be mindful of how much time went into the game. I don't play anything shorter then 25 5X30 time settings so it's not an issue for me. But reviewing a blitz game seems silly to me ;-)
3.Stronger players don't bite. Ask for reviews, ask for teaching games, and of course remember to pay it forward when your have the chance.
Author:  TheBigH [ Wed Dec 12, 2012 11:30 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: What one thing do you wish you had known when starting?
I wish I'd known about go 15 years ago.
Author:  daal [ Thu Dec 13, 2012 12:38 am ]
Post subject:  Re: What one thing do you wish you had known when starting?
I wish I had known when starting that I would someday achieve professional strength.
Author:  Mef [ Thu Dec 13, 2012 3:31 am ]
Post subject:  Re: What one thing do you wish you had known when starting?
Don't put ego in winning or losing.

There will be people who you will always be able to beat giving 3 stones.
There will be people who will always be able to beat you giving 3 stones.

Neither of these facts makes anyone a lesser person.

If winning were truly that important you could always just play people in the first category. If winning were that important to everyone else, the people in the second category could always just play you. Just do you best in ever game, work hard to get better, worry about the process and not the current result.
Author:  lovelove [ Thu Dec 13, 2012 4:02 am ]
Post subject:  Re: What one thing do you wish you had known when starting?
Mef wrote:
Don't put ego in winning or losing.

There will be people who you will always be able to beat giving 3 stones.
There will be people who will always be able to beat you giving 3 stones.

Neither of these facts makes anyone a lesser person.

If winning were truly that important you could always just play people in the first category. If winning were that important to everyone else, the people in the second category could always just play you. Just do you best in ever game, work hard to get better, worry about the process and not the current result.

I disagree, result tells everything in go, and I will someday win the people who always can beat me giving three stones. If I worked hard and the result is bad, this means I haven't worked hard at all. I always want to win.
Author:  EdLee [ Thu Dec 13, 2012 4:49 am ]
Post subject: 
lovelove wrote:
I disagree, result tells everything in go, and I will someday win the people who always can beat me giving three stones.
This could be true for YOU -- some day, perhaps no human, not even the top pros,
can give you 3 stones: congratulations to YOU. But for the majority of the Go population, what Mef said is true.
lovelove wrote:
If I worked hard and the result is bad, this means I haven't worked hard at all. I always want to win.
Of course, fighting spirit and competitive spirit are great, and wanting to win is natural and OK,
and YOU are entitled to feel and live this way.
What do you mean by "the result is bad" ? Does not winning mean "the result is bad" for you?
In a pro tournament with 50 pros, there can only be one champion (the "winner") --
if you define winning the championship as the only "good" result,
and all other results are "bad", then are you saying the other 49 pros "haven't worked hard at all"?
If yes, then this is ridiculous and an insult to them.
Author:  lovelove [ Thu Dec 13, 2012 4:59 am ]
Post subject:  Re:
EdLee wrote:
lovelove wrote:
I disagree, result tells everything in go, and I will someday win the people who always can beat me giving three stones.
This could be true for YOU -- some day, perhaps no human, not even the top pros,
can give you 3 stones: congratulations to YOU. But for the majority of the Go population, what Mef said is true.
lovelove wrote:
If I worked hard and the result is bad, this means I haven't worked hard at all. I always want to win.
Of course, fighting spirit and competitive spirit are great, and wanting to win is natural and OK,
and YOU are entitled to feel and live this way.
What do you mean by "the result is bad" ? Does not winning mean "the result is bad" for you?
In a pro tournament with 50 pros, there can only be one champion (the "winner") --
if you define winning the championship as the only "good" result,
and all other results are "bad", then are you saying the other 49 pros "haven't worked hard at all"?
If yes, then this is ridiculous and an insult to them.

You fully understood my sentences, except your last, "then are you saying the other 49 pros "haven't worked hard at all"?
If yes, then this is ridiculous and an insult to them."

If I go to a tournament and lose, I will not think I worked hard. However, this is just for me, it can be insulting myself, but I'm not insulting others.
Author:  Bill Spight [ Thu Dec 13, 2012 10:30 am ]
Post subject:  Re: What one thing do you wish you had known when starting?
Not to make territory. ;)
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