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Goal 1D and some advices for a newbie
http://www.lifein19x19.com/viewtopic.php?f=11&t=7841		 Page 1 of 2
Author:  Servasky [ Sat Feb 09, 2013 4:55 am ]
Post subject:  Goal 1D and some advices for a newbie
Hi! I started to play Go some weeks ago and i'm fascinated with it. It's so simple and so deep at the same time!. I have some doubts :)

1. Where do you recommend to play online? Tygem, Wbaduk, KGS...? Why?
2. Is it 1D a real goal? is it too easy or too hard? How long it takes?
3. Is there in go something like "chess tactics" (chess is 99% tactics, so if you want improve... :D)?

Thanks!!
Author:  SoDesuNe [ Sat Feb 09, 2013 5:17 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Goal 1D and some advices for a newbie
1. Where you play does not really matter as long as you have access to stronger players. If you are a beginner then play everywhere you like.

2. 1D is just a number. There is 1D KGS, 1D EGF, 1D AGA etc. and they are not necessarily on the same level. To reach 1D anywhere is neither too hard nor too easy and it depends a lot on how much time (and money) you want to invest and if you have stronger players, who are willing to play and teach you. There are some who reach 1D in six months and there are some who yet dream to achieve this level after almost four years (that would be me ; ) ).

3. Yes, tactics in Go are very, very important. I'd say they are the most important aspect in Go. The common advice for beginners is therefore to solve a lot (A LOT!) of Go problems (Life-and-Death and Tesuji, too) and to solve them regulary.
Author:  EdLee [ Sat Feb 09, 2013 5:20 am ]
Post subject: 
1. Try all the different servers for yourself and find out which one(s) you like. I like IGS, KGS, and Nova.
2. This depends on each person. For some people, it's not too difficult; for some other people, they will never make it in their lifetime.(*)
3. Yes.


(*) I assume you are talking about amateur 1-dan LEVEL, which is maybe around 6 or 7 stones from pro.
As SoDesuNe pointed out, a 1-dan Rating is different and can mean different levels on different servers/organizations.
For example, there are AGA 3-dans who are actually 1-kyu LEVEL (their best rating on KGS).
Author:  lovelove [ Sat Feb 09, 2013 5:27 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Goal 1D and some advices for a newbie
Servasky wrote:
Hi! I started to play Go some weeks ago and i'm fascinated with it. It's so simple and so deep at the same time!. I have some doubts :)

1. Where do you recommend to play online? Tygem, Wbaduk, KGS...? Why?
2. Is it 1D a real goal? is it too easy or too hard? How long it takes?
3. Is there in go something like "chess tactics" (chess is 99% tactics, so if you want improve... :D)?

Thanks!!

1. KGS, if you want to communicate with a small pool of English speaking users. Tygem, if you want to play with max 30,000 simultaneous users, but no English.
2. 3 months ~ 3 years. If three hours of go study per day, 6 month.
3. Yes, also the most important part of go.
Author:  Servasky [ Sat Feb 09, 2013 5:29 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Goal 1D and some advices for a newbie
Ok ;)

Is there any special website or book to solve go problems?

Thanks!!
Author:  lovelove [ Sat Feb 09, 2013 5:30 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Goal 1D and some advices for a newbie
Servasky wrote:
Ok ;)

Is there any special website or book to solve go problems?

Thanks!!

http://goproblems.com/
I can give you my premium account if you want.
Author:  SoDesuNe [ Sat Feb 09, 2013 5:36 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Goal 1D and some advices for a newbie
goproblems.com is a great website!

Books to begin with I could recommend the Graded Go Problems for Beginners series (four volumes). Later Tesuji by Davies, Get Strong at Tesuji, Maeda's Life-and-Death Intermediate Problems, Yi Ch'ang-Ho's Selected Tsumego and Tesuji series (six volumes each but in chinese).
Author:  EdLee [ Sat Feb 09, 2013 5:42 am ]
Post subject: 
lovelove wrote:
2. 3 months ~ 3 years. If three hours of go study per day, 6 month.
Not true. For some people, especially if they are very young (under 10 years of age), this can happen and has happened many times.
But for some other people, especially over 30, 40, or 50 years old, they will never make it in their lifetime.
Author:  lovelove [ Sat Feb 09, 2013 5:47 am ]
Post subject:  Re:
EdLee wrote:
lovelove wrote:
2. 3 months ~ 3 years. If three hours of go study per day, 6 month.
Not true. For some people, especially if they are very young (under 10 years of age), this can happen and has happened many times.
But for some other people, especially over 30, 40, or 50 years old, they will never make it in their lifetime.

Not true, I've heard a lot of times, even a monkey can be 5 gup (about Tygem 5d)
Author:  EdLee [ Sat Feb 09, 2013 5:50 am ]
Post subject: 
lovelove wrote:
Not true, I've heard a lot of times, even a monkey can be 5 gup (about Tygem 5d)
Should I say please don't insult the monkey ? :)

Are you saying ANYBODY, at any age and prior experience, with 3 hours of daily study, can make amateur 1-dan LEVEL in 6 months ?
Notice all I said was your claim cannot be true for EVERYBODY, and that for some people, they will never make it.
Notice also that all we need is one counter-example to disprove your claim: if there is any ONE person,
who studies Go for 3 hours a day, but fails to make 1-dan in 6 months, it shows your claim is false.
To prove your claim, you need to show it is true for EVERYBODY on Earth.

I assert you cannot prove your claim.
Maybe you're confused about the logic.
Author:  lovelove [ Sat Feb 09, 2013 5:53 am ]
Post subject:  Re:
EdLee wrote:
lovelove wrote:
Not true, I've heard a lot of times, even a monkey can be 5 gup (about Tygem 5d)
Should I say please don't insult the monkey ? :)

Yea, sorry. :sad:
Author:  Servasky [ Sat Feb 09, 2013 6:01 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Goal 1D and some advices for a newbie
lovelove wrote:
Servasky wrote:
Ok ;)

Is there any special website or book to solve go problems?

Thanks!!

http://goproblems.com/
I can give you my premium account if you want.



Don't you want it?

PD. I'm 25 ^^
Author:  lovelove [ Sat Feb 09, 2013 6:04 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Goal 1D and some advices for a newbie
Servasky wrote:
Don't you want it?

You can download all the problems in that website once you have pro account. So I no more need to visit that website. My account is permanent, so PM me if you are interested.
Author:  badukJr [ Sat Feb 09, 2013 9:57 am ]
Post subject:  Re:
EdLee wrote:
lovelove wrote:
Not true, I've heard a lot of times, even a monkey can be 5 gup (about Tygem 5d)
Should I say please don't insult the monkey ? :)

Are you saying ANYBODY, at any age and prior experience, with 3 hours of daily study, can make amateur 1-dan LEVEL in 6 months ?
Notice all I said was your claim cannot be true for EVERYBODY, and that for some people, they will never make it.
Notice also that all we need is one counter-example to disprove your claim: if there is any ONE person,
who studies Go for 3 hours a day, but fails to make 1-dan in 6 months, it shows your claim is false.
To prove your claim, you need to show it is true for EVERYBODY on Earth.

I assert you cannot prove your claim.
Maybe you're confused about the logic.


I think for responding to a person posting on a forum its reasonable. If we had such a technical argument everytime a go proverb was cited, learning would be unfun.

3 hours a day, for 180 days... 540 hours of learning. That's quite a lot. Maybe a 50 year old can't focus for such a long period? Just try doing one activity for 3 hours a day, every single day, for 6 months. It isn't easy.
Author:  zslane [ Sat Feb 09, 2013 12:22 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Goal 1D and some advices for a newbie
I think there are basically three types of new Go players. Those who have a knack for the game and find it almost effortless to apply new concepts to the board, those who do not have a knack for the game but grind out the study, training, and practice session in a herculean effort to reach some ratings goal (like amateur shodan), and those who have neither the knack nor the willingness, patience, or interest sufficient to go through the grind.

The first types are the ones who either become pros or very high amateur dans. If they are lucky (or Asian), they start as kids and advance very rapidly. However, other interests have a high chance of displacing Go in their lives before they get to the point of becoming Insei (or equivalent).

The second types are usually highly competitive, even with themselves, over-achievers who, Terminator-like, absolutely will not stop until reaching their goal(s), even if the process feels mostly like an unpleasant job rather than a fun pasttime. These are the ones who will reach shodan after a few years no matter what age they start, so long as they work very very hard at it.

The third types are the ones who dearly love the game, its design and aesthetics, but who will never have the sheer determination or obsessive interest sufficient to study hard enough to reach dan level. I fall into this category, as does probably 90% of those who try the game and discover something beautiful about it.
Author:  badukJr [ Sat Feb 09, 2013 12:55 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Goal 1D and some advices for a newbie
Erm, you don't have to insult everyone who reaches amateur dan level and not asian. I took it quite slow and easy, amateur 1d isn't some stratospheric level.
Author:  SoDesuNe [ Sat Feb 09, 2013 2:15 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Goal 1D and some advices for a newbie
badukJr wrote:
[...] amateur 1d isn't some stratospheric level.


Yes, this is true. Shodan is actually still pretty awful ; )
But I think this "wisdom" comes over time. When I started I thought, 1D or even steadily progressing was not hard. And then I didn't make progress for a couple of months, even losing badly to friends I showed the game and who had never played before.
Now I played on and off for almost four years and from my "accumulated experience" I can tell that with the "right" books, the right mind-set and the right tuition from stronger players, 1D is not some mysterious goal. Sure, you need time and dedication but that is to be expected if you want to be good at something.

It is quite possible to achieve 1D in one year as a pupil or student (because then you most likely have enough free-time), if you have some guidance.

Without such guidance, you end up as most players (me included), somewhere in between, with a lot of bad habits and very slow improvement.
Author:  Servasky [ Sat Feb 09, 2013 3:03 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Goal 1D and some advices for a newbie
What's Shodan?
Author:  EdLee [ Sat Feb 09, 2013 3:11 pm ]
Post subject: 
Servasky wrote:
What's Shodan?
In Japanese, sho-dan ( 初段 ) means beginning dan, or 1-dan. Amateur 1-dan is about 6 or 7 stones from professional level.
Author:  Servasky [ Sat Feb 09, 2013 3:30 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Goal 1D and some advices for a newbie
Ok thanks :D
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