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Any chance for Black to take the upper right corner here?
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Author:  gmsa84 [ Sat Jul 06, 2013 2:07 pm ]
Post subject:  Any chance for Black to take the upper right corner here?
My opponent didn't let me finish the game, but I thought I had a chance to build 2 eyes in the upper right corner. Is it possible? Many thanks!



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gmsa84.sgf [2.32 KiB]
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Author:  illluck [ Sat Jul 06, 2013 2:15 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Any chance for Black to take the upper right corner here
Yes, by playing one point to the right of the star point if black plays next.

Edit: Opps, for some reason it didn't go to the end of the game - I was on move 33 XD
Author:  illluck [ Sat Jul 06, 2013 2:21 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Any chance for Black to take the upper right corner here
The 1-2 point on the top edge seems to lead to ko. Unfortunately, I'm on ipad so can't really post variations.
Author:  leichtloeslich [ Sat Jul 06, 2013 2:40 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Any chance for Black to take the upper right corner here
Slightly tricky. Certainly hard for your level. I think your opponent really should let you continue if you think you can live..

Quote:
The 1-2 point on the top edge seems to lead to ko. Unfortunately, I'm on ipad so can't really post variations.


I think so, too. Here's my reading: (mostly garbage except the 1-2 point illluck mentioned)
Author:  Phoenix [ Sat Jul 06, 2013 3:25 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Any chance for Black to take the upper right corner here
I don't know about the situation in the top-right, but you should never let an opponent pressure you into finishing the game if you're uncertain. Even if they say they have to run. If they don't have time for a game, they shouldn't have been playing.

It's your journey into this game, and you learn from what happens on the board. Take charge and try your hand when the situation is fuzzy.
Author:  gmsa84 [ Sat Jul 06, 2013 3:28 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Any chance for Black to take the upper right corner here
Phoenix wrote:
I don't know about the situation in the top-right, but you should never let an opponent pressure you into finishing the game if you're uncertain. Even if they say they have to run. If they don't have time for a game, they shouldn't have been playing.

It's your journey into this game, and you learn from what happens on the board. Take charge and try your hand when the situation is fuzzy.


I agree. I'm still no expert in KGS. Let's say both of us pass and we go to scoring, is there a way to continue the game from there?
Author:  amnal [ Sat Jul 06, 2013 3:40 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Any chance for Black to take the upper right corner here
gmsa84 wrote:
Phoenix wrote:
I don't know about the situation in the top-right, but you should never let an opponent pressure you into finishing the game if you're uncertain. Even if they say they have to run. If they don't have time for a game, they shouldn't have been playing.

It's your journey into this game, and you learn from what happens on the board. Take charge and try your hand when the situation is fuzzy.


I agree. I'm still no expert in KGS. Let's say both of us pass and we go to scoring, is there a way to continue the game from there?


If you press the undo button, the game continues with you to play.
Author:  moyoaji [ Sat Jul 06, 2013 3:40 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Any chance for Black to take the upper right corner here
Actually, I think black has one ko threat you are forgetting about... that other dead group has one eye.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$ The Ko Threat
$$-----------
$$|OO.OXXO.O|
$$|XOO.OXXOO|
$$|XXOOOXX.X|
$$|X.X.OOXX.|
$$|C.XOOXXOX|
$$|..XOOOOOB|
$$|.X,XOOOO.|
$$|..XXXOXXX|
$$|..XOOOOX.|
$$----------[/go]


If black connects his group has two eyes. White has to stop it and black can take the ko and live. Now, white will then play at the circle as a ko threat and black won't be able to stop it. By the end white will have 6 captures and black will have 4, so white still wins, but black's group lives.
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$ Final Game: B - 14, W - 21.5
$$-----------
$$|OO.OXX.X.|
$$|.OO.OXX..|
$$|..OOOXXXX|
$$|.OX.OOXXX|
$$|OOXOOXXOX|
$$|XXXOOOOOX|
$$|.X,XOOOOO|
$$|..XXXOXXX|
$$|..XOOOOX.|
$$----------[/go]
Author:  leichtloeslich [ Sat Jul 06, 2013 3:51 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Any chance for Black to take the upper right corner here
moyoaji wrote:
black has one ko threat you are forgetting about

Indeed. I guess I should have done my reading with the original sgf.
Author:  Bill Spight [ Sat Jul 06, 2013 10:00 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Any chance for Black to take the upper right corner here


Interesting corner. :) Difficult.
Author:  leichtloeslich [ Sat Jul 06, 2013 10:27 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Any chance for Black to take the upper right corner here
Wow, totally missed the mannen ko. I dismissed the other ko because black gets to take first, but of course it is preferable to a 10000 year ko (aka seki in this position).

These pesky carpenters and their oblong utensils!
Author:  gmsa84 [ Sun Jul 07, 2013 10:16 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Any chance for Black to take the upper right corner here
Wow, this definitely was more complicated that it looks... Thanks for all the input guys!
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