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About the ranking system
http://www.lifein19x19.com/viewtopic.php?f=11&t=8732		 Page 1 of 1
Author:  bgnalm [ Tue Jul 16, 2013 8:58 pm ]
Post subject:  About the ranking system
Hi everyone. I'm new to the game of go and up to now its really fun.

But, as men, our ego dictates us. So my question is how hard is it to get to 1d?(amateur of course)
Just to have the recognition that I'm at some level (like the master title in chess, or black belts in martial arts)??>
Author:  LocoRon [ Tue Jul 16, 2013 9:11 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: About the ranking system
I think it must be fairly easy... if you're willing to put in the time and effort.

Certainly, it is very hard to reach if you don't put in either time or effort.
Author:  bgnalm [ Tue Jul 16, 2013 9:12 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: About the ranking system
LocoRon wrote:
I think it must be fairly easy... if you're willing to put in the time and effort.

Certainly, it is very hard to reach if you don't put in either time or effort.


tnx.
Do you maybe have a time estimation?
Author:  quantumf [ Tue Jul 16, 2013 10:58 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: About the ranking system
It can apparently be done within a year if everything goes really well, and you spend your time and money wisely. It took me five years. I think that that is quite a high number - I suspect most people give up before that point (but I could be wrong). Just note that it's not really a linear thing - once you hit the single digit kyu's, you'll find the gaps between promotions increases, perhaps astonishingly so. There are also plateaus - 5k and 2k are common ones
Author:  LocoRon [ Tue Jul 16, 2013 11:09 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: About the ranking system
bgnalm wrote:
tnx.
Do you maybe have a time estimation?


I've been playing off and on since 2004. I put in very little effort*, and am currently around 1k kgs.

(When I opened my current account on kgs a couple years ago, I actually was able to maintain 1d for awhile. But I've barely played in that time, and consider myself lucky to hold onto 1k, for now.)

*While I don't study pro games (ever), or even review 1% of my games, I have spent a fair amount of time on tsumego at various points, and I do play every game seriously (ie, with slow time settings, in the best environmental conditions possible, etc).
Author:  Boidhre [ Wed Jul 17, 2013 12:21 am ]
Post subject:  Re: About the ranking system
bgnalm wrote:
LocoRon wrote:
I think it must be fairly easy... if you're willing to put in the time and effort.

Certainly, it is very hard to reach if you don't put in either time or effort.


tnx.
Do you maybe have a time estimation?


People either seem to get there in a couple of years (in very rare cases less than a year), otherwise they end up somewhere in the single digit kyu ranks and stay there. I haven't personally met someone who was working very hard at improving as an sdk and being stuck at the same rank for more than a year but I've heard it happen from others.
Author:  shapenaji [ Wed Jul 17, 2013 12:47 am ]
Post subject:  Re: About the ranking system
bgnalm wrote:

tnx.
Do you maybe have a time estimation?


You can certainly do it in a year, but in my experience, it takes 3 things, all of which arise from a love of the game:

1) A commitment to studying
2) A healthy fearlessness
3) A willingness to experiment

If you have (1), you'll get an idea of "what is reasonable"
If you have (2), you'll get into complicated situations which will test your reading
If you have (3), you'll discover new moves

Imo, people who get stuck before 1d are usually lacking either (2) or (3), and putting too much emphasis on (1).
Author:  cdybeijing [ Wed Jul 17, 2013 1:27 am ]
Post subject:  Re: About the ranking system
shapenaji wrote:
bgnalm wrote:

tnx.
Do you maybe have a time estimation?


You can certainly do it in a year, but in my experience, it takes 3 things, all of which arise from a love of the game:

1) A commitment to studying
2) A healthy fearlessness
3) A willingness to experiment

If you have (1), you'll get an idea of "what is reasonable"
If you have (2), you'll get into complicated situations which will test your reading
If you have (3), you'll discover new moves

Imo, people who get stuck before 1d are usually lacking either (2) or (3), and putting too much emphasis on (1).


This is really a great post, and quite insightful. I've only started to realize (2) and (3) since acquiring a professional teacher and having him criticize my play.
Author:  otenki [ Wed Jul 17, 2013 2:33 am ]
Post subject:  Re: About the ranking system
shapenaji wrote:

tnx.
Do you maybe have a time estimation?

You can certainly do it in a year, but in my experience, it takes 3 things, all of which arise from a love of the game:

1) A commitment to studying
2) A healthy fearlessness
3) A willingness to experiment

If you have (1), you'll get an idea of "what is reasonable"
If you have (2), you'll get into complicated situations which will test your reading
If you have (3), you'll discover new moves

Imo, people who get stuck before 1d are usually lacking either (2) or (3), and putting too much emphasis on (1).


Damn I'm pretty sure I have 2 and 3, maybe even too much of 3...
Howhever I'm still not kgs 1d, and I'm playing for more than a year allready (1y and 7m).

So bgnalm, it is a long journey and everyone has to do it at their own pace :-)

Enjoy!
Otenki
Author:  shapenaji [ Wed Jul 17, 2013 2:58 am ]
Post subject:  Re: About the ranking system
otenki wrote:

Damn I'm pretty sure I have 2 and 3, maybe even too much of 3...
Howhever I'm still not kgs 1d, and I'm playing for more than a year allready (1y and 7m).

So bgnalm, it is a long journey and everyone has to do it at their own pace :-)

Enjoy!
Otenki


Well, I did say "usually" :)

In your case, if you feel you've got (2) and (3) covered, then it's probably an issue with (1) and understanding "a reasonable exchange", new moves aren't much use if you don't have a good baseline to evaluate them.
Author:  bgnalm [ Wed Jul 17, 2013 6:08 am ]
Post subject:  Re: About the ranking system
Wow thanks everybody!

every question I had in my mind was answered
Author:  gowan [ Wed Jul 17, 2013 7:13 am ]
Post subject:  Re: About the ranking system
bgnalm wrote:
Hi everyone. I'm new to the game of go and up to now its really fun.

But, as men, our ego dictates us. So my question is how hard is it to get to 1d?(amateur of course)
Just to have the recognition that I'm at some level (like the master title in chess, or black belts in martial arts)??>


I wouldn't invest too much of my ego in my go rank. As was mentioned in another thread, amateur 1d leaves you a long way to go to get really strong, and when you get to 1d the scenery looks pretty much the same as it did before. Also, 1d means different things in different communities of players. Amateur 1d in Europe is likely a bit stronger than 1d in Japan, and 1d in Korea is stronger than 1d in Europe.

Actually, I think amateur dan ranks were an invention of the Nihon Ki-in in Japan to promote amateur play. And there were no amateur dan ranks in Korea until 15 years ago or so. Ranks, and the names of ranks, are an artificial construct and hence have no intrinsic meaning. What really counts is how you play and, for amateurs, how much you enjoy the game. If you pay too much attention to your rank, whatever system is used to determine it, you are risking frustration if you don't advance rapidly enough. And there are plenty of people who have given up the game because of getting stuck at what they consider an unsatisfactory rank.
Author:  tekesta [ Wed Jul 17, 2013 7:50 am ]
Post subject:  Re: About the ranking system
My tuppence :mrgreen: Kyuu (grades) and dan (degrees) are numbers designed to estimate how much skill a student has in the discipline being studied, be it kendô, ikebana, shôgi, etc. First dan means that you've mastered the basics and are ready for more advanced themes. In old Japan and China, promotions were conferred by the headmaster of a school. This way the student could be sure that he was learning everything the instructor wanted him to learn.

I would not be too concerned with rank, since it - unless regularly updated - is only a number. Rather, I'd just try to increase my understanding of the game, little by little, of course. I find that doing tsumego on different themes such as fuseki, vital points, tesuji, and life & death, in conjunction with playing and analyzing games, help me to increase my Go skill. I'd begin by concentrating on the latter two items, since a strong foundation in them is necessary for understanding more complicated themes such as jôseki and endgame. I'd begin with the easiest categories (DDK) and progress from there. As one gains experience, problems are that now difficult later become understandable. The more of them you do daily, the better, but even just 10 to 15 minutes a day of tsumego work will yield results. Eventually your level of play will be that of an amateur dan :twisted:

Welcome to the most marvellous world of weiqi. You will not regret having taken up weiqi. I confidently assure you.
Author:  jts [ Wed Jul 17, 2013 8:22 am ]
Post subject:  Re: About the ranking system
I have heard people say 1,000 games to 1-dan. I have no idea how accurate that is. I've heard people say both that it's too many and too few. I think it is reasonable to say that you'll have played more than 250 games and fewer than 2,500 games when you hit 1-dan. So if you're playing three games a day, learning the rules and getting to 1-dan in a year is a fairly reasonable goal. If you're averaging one game a day, it's a very ambitious goal.

(Do other people think that's fair?)

One thing that is very important to understand is that people who set these goals expect to make linear progress. But if you go from 12k to 9k in three months, that doesn't mean you'll be 1d by the end of the year. Even if you go from 12k to 6k in three months, that doesn't mean you'll be 1d by the end of the year. Don't get discouraged when the realization that 1k->1d takes longer than 11k->10k sets in.
Author:  Martin1974 [ Wed Jul 17, 2013 11:32 am ]
Post subject:  Re: About the ranking system
Shapenajis insights seem very relevant. And since I'm very fearfull, therefor not in the least inclined to experimentation I'm probably in for honorable life-time 39 kyu ...
Author:  Boidhre [ Wed Jul 17, 2013 6:05 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: About the ranking system
Martin1974 wrote:
Shapenajis insights seem very relevant. And since I'm very fearfull, therefor not in the least inclined to experimentation I'm probably in for honorable life-time 39 kyu ...


Regularly play someone who plays unorthodox moves (preferably a nice bit stronger than you). It's how I got out of my overly conservative mindset when I was beginning.
Author:  bleep [ Mon Jul 22, 2013 11:50 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: About the ranking system
shapenaji wrote:
bgnalm wrote:

tnx.
Do you maybe have a time estimation?


You can certainly do it in a year, but in my experience, it takes 3 things, all of which arise from a love of the game:

1) A commitment to studying
2) A healthy fearlessness
3) A willingness to experiment

If you have (1), you'll get an idea of "what is reasonable"
If you have (2), you'll get into complicated situations which will test your reading
If you have (3), you'll discover new moves

Imo, people who get stuck before 1d are usually lacking either (2) or (3), and putting too much emphasis on (1).


I have these in precisely the wrong order!
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