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| 4-4 double keima approach disaster http://www.lifein19x19.com/viewtopic.php?f=11&t=9776 |
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| Author: | ShinLyuu [ Wed Jan 29, 2014 4:19 pm ] | ||
| Post subject: | 4-4 double keima approach disaster | ||
Hello there, I started playing on Tygem again and in the process losing a lot of hair over unexpected moves that keep throwing me off over and over again. How should I play after white's E17? Just connecting seemed common sense to me, but that didn't turn out so great in the end. Thanks in advance.
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| Author: | EdLee [ Wed Jan 29, 2014 4:22 pm ] |
| Post subject: | |
Just atari C15 and push through in sente -- basic broken shape for W. Later, after you make the C18-B18 exchange, you still have the double hane at G17. The problem is not  connect. You killed yourself with  .  Important to distinguish the moves that are problematic from the ones that aren't. |
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| Author: | ShinLyuu [ Wed Jan 29, 2014 4:30 pm ] | ||
| Post subject: | Re: 4-4 double keima approach disaster | ||
So it looks ok like this then? Thanks for your answer.
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| Author: | EdLee [ Wed Jan 29, 2014 4:31 pm ] |
| Post subject: | |
Yes, much better result for B than in the real game. Also, the double approach has many variations -- have to look at the whole board. It's a lot of work.
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| Author: | ShinLyuu [ Wed Jan 29, 2014 4:34 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: 4-4 double keima approach disaster |
I tend to screw up a lot with moves like 11 at the most crucial time of an exchange... ^^; Should I focus on tsumego, joseki or something else to get these kind of moves right? |
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| Author: | EdLee [ Wed Jan 29, 2014 4:38 pm ] |
| Post subject: | |
ShinLyuu wrote: I tend to screw up a lot with moves like 11 at the most crucial time of an exchange... ^^; I've noticed that this depends on the individual.Should I focus on tsumego, joseki or something else to get these kind of moves right? Some people can study and improve nicely all by themselves. Some find a good teacher to be very helpful. (I belong to the latter group. )
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| Author: | EdLee [ Thu Jan 30, 2014 12:54 am ] |
| Post subject: | |
ShinLyuu wrote: How should I play after white's E17? Just connecting seemed common sense to me, ( my emphasis. )but that didn't turn out so great in the end. Hi Shin, it turns out the  - exchange is good for B, so you are happy to do it.If you compare the variation where W hanes up at G16 on instead of pushing at E17,B's shape is less solid than yours in the game -- the - exchange helps B get a nice strong wall.Once again, important to tell the good moves ( connect ) from the less good ones.
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| Author: | ShinLyuu [ Thu Jan 30, 2014 1:43 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: 4-4 double keima approach disaster |
Ok, next time I'll get it right and not lose so easily (I hope). Thank you for sharing your wisdom, EdLee! |
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| Author: | entropi [ Thu Jan 30, 2014 7:10 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: 4-4 double keima approach disaster |
ShinLyuu wrote: So it looks ok like this then? Thanks for your answer. But something seems to be wrong with this variation. Wg16 (atari) and then Wd15 would lead to complications. I wouldn't play double hane in this position. |
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| Author: | ShinLyuu [ Thu Jan 30, 2014 7:59 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: 4-4 double keima approach disaster |
Oh yeah, I didn't think of that, best to avoid the double hane before the shape D15 cut is fixed then. Fantastic signature quote by the way. 
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| Author: | hyperpape [ Thu Jan 30, 2014 6:24 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: 4-4 double keima approach disaster |
I think Vlack can throw in at F18 to get the second line stone. I haven't read any way for White to gain from those lines, and Black's shape is a bit nicer, IMO. |
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| Author: | shapenaji [ Thu Jan 30, 2014 11:35 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: 4-4 double keima approach disaster |
yeah, there's no reason for the double hane in the final position... you already got value for your sacrifice |
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