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A GoChild Question (#1)
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Author:  saxmaam [ Sat Mar 08, 2014 5:27 am ]
Post subject:  A GoChild Question (#1)
It's under <Practice><Basic 900 Pack><Seal In><Question 20>

This module is about encapsulating/isolating your opponent.

The solution wants you to hit string of 4 on the head, then make a string of 3 on the third line. Why not a row of 2?

There is a problem posting the sgf code. The size of the board in GoChild is 11x11, but Eidego doesn't seem to support that size. So the original string of 4 black stones is supposed to be on line 4. Any suggestions how to deal with this?
Author:  VincentCB [ Sat Mar 08, 2014 7:01 am ]
Post subject:  Re: A GoChild Question (#1)
If I understand correctly, this is the solution from the website :
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$B
$$ +-----------------------+
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . , . . . . . , . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . , . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X X X X . . . . . . |
$$ | . O O O O 1 3 5 , . . |
$$ | . . . . . 2 4 . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ +-----------------------+[/go]

You are asking why this doesn't work :
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$B
$$ +-----------------------+
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . , . . . . . , . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . , . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X X X X . . . . . . |
$$ | . O O O O 1 3 . , . . |
$$ | . . . . . 2 4 5 . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ +-----------------------+[/go]

The problem with :b5: above is that white can cut :
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$B
$$ +-----------------------+
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . , . . . . . , . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . , . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X X X X . . . . . . |
$$ | . O O O O 1 3 6 , . . |
$$ | . . . . . 2 4 5 . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ +-----------------------+[/go]

What happens next? Try to find out by yourself. The continuation is below.
:w6: threatens to capture :b5:. Black saves it. :w8: threatens to capture :b1: and :b3:. Black saves them. But :w10: captures the two stones below.
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$B
$$ +-----------------------+
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . , . . . . . , . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . , . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . 9 . . . . |
$$ | . X X X X . . 8 . . . |
$$ | . O O O O 1 3 6 , 0 . |
$$ | . . . . . 2 4 5 7 . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ +-----------------------+[/go]
Author:  Mike Novack [ Sat Mar 08, 2014 7:38 am ]
Post subject:  Re: A GoChild Question (#1)
saxmaam wrote:
It's under <Practice><Basic 900 Pack><Seal In><Question 20>
This module is about encapsulating/isolating your opponent.

The solution wants you to hit string of 4 on the head, then make a string of 3 on the third line. Why not a row of 2?

There is a problem posting the sgf code. The size of the board in GoChild is 11x11, but Eidego doesn't seem to support that size. So the original string of 4 black stones is supposed to be on line 4. Any suggestions how to deal with this?


First, you moved the problem the wrong way to deal with the board size issue. Where the edges are is quite relevant. We can't properly address the original problem because of the direction you moved it relative the edge. That is perhaps the first beginner lesson here, "edges matter".
Author:  saxmaam [ Sat Mar 08, 2014 8:29 am ]
Post subject:  Re: A GoChild Question (#1)
Mike Novack wrote:
First, you moved the problem the wrong way to deal with the board size issue. Where the edges are is quite relevant. We can't properly address the original problem because of the direction you moved it relative the edge. That is perhaps the first beginner lesson here, "edges matter".


Thanks, Mike. I did know that much. But I don't know what the right way is. So I asked ...
Author:  EdLee [ Sat Mar 08, 2014 8:33 am ]
Post subject: 
Hi saxmaam, to expand on what Mike said, Go is super specific:
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$ Original question
$$ -----------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X X X X . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . O O O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ -----------------------------------------[/go]

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$ Your board
$$ -----------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X X X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O O O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ -----------------------------------------[/go]
The two boards are VERY different -- they have almost no connection to each other! :)
Author:  saxmaam [ Sat Mar 08, 2014 8:45 am ]
Post subject:  Re: A GoChild Question (#1)
VincentCB wrote:
What happens next? Try to find out by yourself. The continuation is below.


OK, I got it. I ran out a different unfavorable scenario. Thanks for playing this out for me.
Author:  xed_over [ Sat Mar 08, 2014 11:04 am ]
Post subject:  Re: A GoChild Question (#1)
I love how Vincent just answered his question, while the rest of you chuckleheads just berate him over something he didn't even do, and was out of his control -- if you look at his sgf, it is correct (11x11)
Author:  Uberdude [ Sat Mar 08, 2014 11:47 am ]
Post subject:  Re: A GoChild Question (#1)
xed_over wrote:
I love how Vincent just answered his question, while the rest of you chuckleheads just berate him over something he didn't even do, and was out of his control -- if you look at his sgf, it is correct (11x11)


Mike Novack wrote:
First, you moved the problem the wrong way to deal with the board size issue.


And were wrong in the berating...
Author:  Bonobo [ Sat Mar 08, 2014 1:25 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: A GoChild Question (#1)
OK, so we see that even when nice people try to correct others’ mistakes they sometimes make even larger mistakes … <shrug>

Happens to me all the time :lol:

So, can we pls move on instead of rubbing salt in respective wounds? ;-)


Peace, Tom
Author:  Mike Novack [ Sat Mar 08, 2014 3:57 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: A GoChild Question (#1)
I am sorry if I wasn't being clear enough.

I was trying to say that compared to any mistake in play with the given formation (with any particular formation) the mistake in not realizing that relocating several spaces away from the edge might (would) completely change the problem was more serious for a beginner. I was not referring to a mistake in the mechanics of trying to present the problem to us.
Author:  saxmaam [ Sun Mar 09, 2014 4:24 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: A GoChild Question (#1)
Mike Novack wrote:
I am sorry if I wasn't being clear enough.

I was trying to say that compared to any mistake in play with the given formation (with any particular formation) the mistake in not realizing that relocating several spaces away from the edge might (would) completely change the problem was more serious for a beginner. I was not referring to a mistake in the mechanics of trying to present the problem to us.


Mike, I totally realized the problem with the relocation. I was asking for help with that. I still am. Take a look at the original post.

Anyway, I think we are beating a dead horse here. I appreciate any and all sincere attempts to be helpful.

Best regards,

Susan
Author:  EdLee [ Sun Mar 09, 2014 5:16 pm ]
Post subject: 
Hi Susan, if a certain board size doesn't work here, like 11x11, you can try another board size, like 13x13:


I just tested and found out these are currently not supported here: 11x11, 15x15, 17x17.

9x9 is supported here, but for this particular situation, 9x9 is too small:
Author:  saxmaam [ Sun Mar 09, 2014 5:22 pm ]
Post subject:  Re:
EdLee wrote:
Hi Susan, if a certain board size doesn't work here, like 11x11, you can try another board size, like 13x13


There's a thought. But doesn't the presence of the corner affect the solution to this particular problem?
Author:  EdLee [ Sun Mar 09, 2014 5:24 pm ]
Post subject: 
saxmaam wrote:
But doesn't the presence of the corner affect the solution to this particular problem?
Yes, good question. Exactly. For this particular shape, 9x9 is too small. :)

Susan, here is a somewhat related shape. Maybe you have already seen this joseki --


-- In this 3-3 joseki, notice :b9: -- it has a lot of similarity to the solution move of the original shape you posted.
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