| Life In 19x19 http://www.lifein19x19.com/ |
|
| How should play black in this position? http://www.lifein19x19.com/viewtopic.php?f=12&t=10630 |
Page 1 of 1 |
| Author: | Abyssinica [ Tue Jul 29, 2014 9:29 pm ] | ||
| Post subject: | How should play black in this position? | ||
So I was playing over this position with a 4k and here's some variations that we've come up with to try and see how white's double approach is bad. In his actual game he played the 3-3 point where black's kosumi out seemed nautral to me.
|
|||
| Author: | EdLee [ Tue Jul 29, 2014 9:56 pm ] |
| Post subject: | |
Hi Abyss, Just my impressions: Instead of  at 5-5, how about o4 ? seems strange to me. R3 (3-3) seems very big. also seems strange to me. Pull out M3 and fight.Both sides want 3-3. It's the big shared local vital point after you take 5-5. (Think of 5-5 and 3-3 as miai.)  letting W get that huge ponnuki on the outsideseems very good for W. Instead, cut at S6 directly. Also, instead of  pushing at R7,B has other options, like Q9 (jump ahead of W). |
|
| Author: | Charles Matthews [ Wed Jul 30, 2014 2:56 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: How should play black in this position? |
Abyssinica wrote: I'm pretty sure that as White I'd play  as M4. Otherwise three weak groups are possible. It should be enough for White to get one strong group in this area. is criticised. Trying to settle the position is not the right idea at present. Playing M4 now seems pretty obvious in terms of this being Black's strong area.Going back, maybe Black's timing is off: pull out at M4 then press seems more natural. So at O5 could be the way to play.
|
|
| Author: | ez4u [ Wed Jul 30, 2014 6:24 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: How should play black in this position? |
Below are the only four examples in GoGoD of the double approach move when the 3-space extension is invaded (out of 1,100 examples of that). As always YMMV.  White continued with 'a' next... Black continued with 'a' next... Black continued with 'a' next... |
|
| Author: | drmwc [ Fri Aug 01, 2014 4:28 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: How should play black in this position? |
In your variation for 23, white replying with 24 at K4 rather than L4 may be entertaining. |
|
| Author: | HermanHiddema [ Fri Aug 01, 2014 6:22 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: How should play black in this position? |
drmwc wrote: In your variation for 23, white replying with 24 at K4 rather than L4 may be entertaining. Oooh, I know that one  Ouch. 
|
|
| Author: | Uberdude [ Fri Aug 01, 2014 6:30 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: How should play black in this position? |
Herman, whilst that's a nice reminder that capturing black does not necessarily means success, I expect white has better lines of play there such as 34 at m6 or h4. This allows black to live but he does damage his corner and outside stones to do so. But also white is cut so there is fighting ahead. Seems vaguely plausible for both without actually doing any reading. |
|
| Author: | HermanHiddema [ Fri Aug 01, 2014 7:17 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: How should play black in this position? |
@uberdude: Yes, white can try other options, but I think it is a hard area to fight in for him, because black is strong on both sides. If black lives inside white gets two groups that are not 100% alive yet. That's why I would much prefer L4 instead of K4. White does not get split, while black's position ends up low. |
|
| Author: | Uberdude [ Fri Aug 01, 2014 8:30 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: How should play black in this position? |
And just one comment for Abyssinica on the original sgf. In the 2nd variation at move 29 black plays h2, l2 is better and means you don't even give white the 2 stones. |
|
| Author: | Abyssinica [ Fri Aug 01, 2014 2:12 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: How should play black in this position? |
HermanHiddema wrote: drmwc wrote: In your variation for 23, white replying with 24 at K4 rather than L4 may be entertaining. Ouch. Reminds me of the 19 point trick play. |
|
| Author: | drmwc [ Wed Aug 06, 2014 12:36 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: How should play black in this position? |
White 34 as suggested in the proposed counter to my move seems very passive. As uberdude said, there are nearly ceratinly better option. If black is forced to make a small life, white may be able to generate an attack against the corner. For example, In this line, black lives, but white 40 causes huge damage, both in territorial terms and the balance of power.(White may also be able to play more stronly at move 38 and go for the kill by playing at 39.) So 35 is probably wrong, and we need altneratives. Black can try to get a squeeze: White 38 thwarts that aim, and IMO white is not doing badly. White could also contemplate dodgin the squeeze a move earlier: If black answers W36 by blocking, he is forced and I think that white dodges any geta/squeeze attempts. So maybe Black needs to cut. However, I thik black now has issues. If he continues by trying to live: I think white can go for the kill. Continuing: White has 4 liberties, which is sufficient. So black needs to avoid this line. One idea is to throw in earlier at move 47. White 50 connects, and black cannot enclose white so he collapses. So I remain to be convinced the proposed counter to my move is in fact effective. |
|
| Page 1 of 1 | All times are UTC - 8 hours [ DST ] |
| Powered by phpBB © 2000, 2002, 2005, 2007 phpBB Group http://www.phpbb.com/ |
|
