Don't know how I'd respond to the original move, but I think
isn't good, because it leaves a weakness at x.
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| Author: | DIV [ Wed Sep 01, 2010 5:08 pm ] |
| Post subject: | A Specific Move I Want To Punish |
I play all of my actual real life Go against one person, the only person I know who can play at all or really has an interest. He takes a five stone handicap usually, and that will put us about even in most cases, he has only won once. Anyway, he plays a specific move that I haven't really been able to figure out what to do with. Every time a make a low approach on a 4-4 point, he uses a one space jump down toward the wall to seemingly really limit my options of corner invasion without a large risk (his lower skill level comes not from his knowledge of life and death, which we are pretty even with, but from his knowledge of playing multipurpose moves and the concepts of thickness and making stones work for the whole board). So what's a recommended idea for dealing with this? I'll try to post a game or at least an opening like this soon. thx |
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| Author: | Kirby [ Wed Sep 01, 2010 5:21 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: A Specific Move I Want To Punish |
This? |
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| Author: | DIV [ Wed Sep 01, 2010 5:31 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: A Specific Move I Want To Punish |
exactly that. I usually play another low approach on the other side, which he follows with the same one space jump, then i come with a shoulder hit or one off from that to hem him in somewhat. |
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| Author: | hyperpape [ Wed Sep 01, 2010 5:41 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: A Specific Move I Want To Punish |
Don't know how I'd respond to the original move, but I think isn't good, because it leaves a weakness at x.
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| Author: | DIV [ Wed Sep 01, 2010 6:55 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: A Specific Move I Want To Punish |
hem: i feel like i've had it play out like this before. I don't know if it's my inexperience or what, but these moves seem to get me. He is thick toward my lone stone, it's intimidating. He usually will lose one corner to overconcentration that I can eventually kill. And after this series of moves I invade another corner and try for moyo and thickness any ladders can run to, giving him the side is my whole play style off? |
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| Author: | daniel_the_smith [ Wed Sep 01, 2010 7:11 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: A Specific Move I Want To Punish |
You are expecting a drastic punishment, but there isn't one. Black has taken too small of a territory with those two moves; if both white stones live, black has essentially punished himself. That said, this is probably fine in a handicap game, but I don't think I would play  in an even game because of this:Instead I would consider a-c below. It really depends on the rest of the board. |
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| Author: | DIV [ Wed Sep 01, 2010 7:48 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: A Specific Move I Want To Punish |
that seems totally reasonable, thanks for the input. |
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| Author: | freegame [ Thu Sep 02, 2010 6:19 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: A Specific Move I Want To Punish |
don't forget you also tenuki (play somewhere else) and leave the corner alone. Later in the game you might be able to make a better decision of what to play in that corner. |
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| Author: | John Fairbairn [ Thu Sep 02, 2010 11:43 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: A Specific Move I Want To Punish |
Bad moves punish themselves. Think of the Black corner moves as a guy who has done no more than put two shoes on, but left the laces untied. You wouldn't then rush to push him to make him fall over. You'd be a bit more subtle. Bet him 50 quid you can beat him in a foot-race, then run (i.e. play elsewhere). |
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| Author: | Bill Spight [ Thu Sep 02, 2010 11:54 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: A Specific Move I Want To Punish |
Kirby wrote: That is an ancient joseki. It is not a bad play by Black in a 5 stone game.  But is too passive. Your problem comes from  . You do not really have an attack against the Black corner, do you. Nor can you form a strong wall. Just accept that you have made a small gain, and continue normally.
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| Author: | Cassandra [ Thu Sep 02, 2010 12:56 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: A Specific Move I Want To Punish |
Bill Spight wrote: That is an ancient joseki. It is not a bad play by Black in a 5 stone game. It can even be found in a few even games between professionals. So I think that there is nothing that should be "punished". |
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| Author: | gowan [ Thu Sep 02, 2010 2:35 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: A Specific Move I Want To Punish |
It's not a "bad" move locally but it misses two basic principles of (handicap) go. Black jumps toward the side to make territory in the corner but the 4-4 point is not efficient at making territory. Second, Black starts off a five stone game with lots of influence. Essentially the whole board is a black moyo. In view of that Black should play a moyo-oriented game, not try to make small territories. He isn't making use of the other handicap stones. |
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| Author: | zinger [ Fri Sep 03, 2010 5:28 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: A Specific Move I Want To Punish |
Bill Spight wrote: But is too passive. Your problem comes from . You do not really have an attack against the Black corner, do you. Nor can you form a strong wall. Just accept that you have made a small gain, and continue normally.Interesting, I was thinking that is natural. Not with any expectation of attacking black's corner - but only to contain him there, to deny his group access to the center.
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| Author: | Jedo [ Fri Sep 03, 2010 7:53 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: A Specific Move I Want To Punish |
zinger wrote: Bill Spight wrote: But is too passive. Your problem comes from . You do not really have an attack against the Black corner, do you. Nor can you form a strong wall. Just accept that you have made a small gain, and continue normally.Interesting, I was thinking that is natural. Not with any expectation of attacking black's corner - but only to contain him there, to deny his group access to the center.Yeah seems good to me too and is probably what I would play in a handicap game, where keeping groups contained is key. There's also some aji for monkeying around with the corner later. Bill, is there a local move you'd recommend over it?
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| Author: | hyperpape [ Fri Sep 03, 2010 8:20 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: A Specific Move I Want To Punish |
My guess is that early in a handicap game, denying black access to the center isn't enough of a goal. Until white is building something on the outside, it doesn't matter enough for black's group to poke its head out. |
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