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 Post subject: Dieter's ABC of mistakes - 10
Post #1 Posted: Tue Apr 13, 2021 8:25 am 
Oza
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Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bc Mistake 10
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O O X . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X , X . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . X X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . a X X X X c . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . O X O O O X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . b O . . . O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


This is more or less a joseki question. Should Black press at ''a'', cut at ''b'' or connect at ''c''?

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 Post subject: Re: Dieter's ABC of mistakes - 10
Post #2 Posted: Tue Apr 13, 2021 9:51 am 
Gosei
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The neural net inside my skull says that connecting on the second line so early in the game is almost never a good move, so I won't consider "c".

White has two cutting points. If Black "a" then White can repair his shape. This is not bad for Black as Black strengthens his wall while keeping White low.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bc Move a
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O O X . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X , X . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . X X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . 1 X X X X . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . O X O O O X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . 2 . O . . . O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


However Black at "b" seems more promising. Unfortunately Black doesn't have the ladder but the following sequence seems good:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bc Move b
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O O X . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X , X . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . X X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . X X X X . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . O X O O O X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . 3 1 O 2 . . O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


White may also want to respond this way but it also feels good for Black:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bc Move b
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O O X . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X , X . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . X X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . X X X X 2 . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . O X O O O X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . 1 O 3 . . O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Conclusion: I like "b".

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 Post subject: Re: Dieter's ABC of mistakes - 10
Post #3 Posted: Thu Apr 15, 2021 10:58 am 
Lives in gote

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Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bc Mistake 10
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O O X . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X , X . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . X X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . a X X X X c . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . O X O O O X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . b O . . . O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


I'm going for 'b'. The big question is whether the white stones on the left are attackable. I think yes, so I'm going to cut at 'b' and look menacingly at those stones.

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 Post subject: Re: Dieter's ABC of mistakes - 10
Post #4 Posted: Sat Apr 17, 2021 3:40 am 
Lives in sente
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I would cut at 'b'. If White saves the three stones, I can still play at 'a', or I can draw out the stone at 'b' (with or without atari), or I can play elsewhere. If White takes the ponnuki, capturing the corner is satisfactory (it would be less so if Black had already invested another stone at 'c').

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A good system naturally covers all corner cases without further effort.

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