Shaddy wrote:
Thank you, I didn't see the nose attach at 5. So now I can agree that it is alive in double ko
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| Shikatsu Myoki Tsumego Series http://www.lifein19x19.com/viewtopic.php?f=12&t=18278 |
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| Author: | Shaddy [ Tue Jul 20, 2021 4:57 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Shikatsu Myoki Tsumego Series |
| Author: | Farodin [ Tue Jul 20, 2021 10:37 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Shikatsu Myoki Tsumego Series |
Shaddy wrote: Thank you, I didn't see the nose attach at 5. So now I can agree that it is alive in double ko
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| Author: | Gérard TAILLE [ Wed Jul 21, 2021 1:06 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Shikatsu Myoki Tsumego Series |
Shaddy wrote: Fine Shaddy, as Farodin, I didn't see the nose attach at 5. That prove that my move  was not correct, allowing you to take at  in good conditions.Far better seems: Now I do not think you will play the sequence  which looks quite bad due to the awful previous exchange of the two marked stones.If the idea is to escape on the left then I think white should play with a good result for white Due to this variant I think black  may be a mistake and I prefer simply taking the corner with ko by:In any case thank you for your help Shaddy, I appreciate. |
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| Author: | Cassandra [ Wed Jul 21, 2021 1:32 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Shikatsu Myoki Tsumego Series |
It is irrelevant, whether is at a or at b alternatively. ko threat elsewhereWhite lives in double-ko. |
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| Author: | Gérard TAILLE [ Wed Jul 21, 2021 1:49 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Shikatsu Myoki Tsumego Series |
Cassandra wrote: It is irrelevant, whether is at a or at b alternatively. ko threat elsewhereWhite lives in double-ko. My proposal was to play to continue fighting the ko on the right till a black connection. |
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| Author: | Kirby [ Wed Jul 21, 2021 4:31 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Shikatsu Myoki Tsumego Series |
Gérard TAILLE wrote: Shaddy wrote: Due to this variant I think black may be a mistake and I prefer simply taking the corner with ko by:In any case thank you for your help Shaddy, I appreciate. Wow, this position is more interesting than I thought. If black plays like that, can white just do this? Then if black plays at 'a', there's another double ko at 'b' and 'c'. |
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| Author: | John Fairbairn [ Wed Jul 21, 2021 11:24 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Shikatsu Myoki Tsumego Series |
Fancy that! A discussion on L19. Maybe I should buy a lottery ticket this week.... Just a small corrective: in the original this is problem 65, not 76, it is not marked as a 'to live' (or ko) problem, nowhere is it described as 'unconditional' life (it says "lives with double ko"), and the categories given in SL do not exist. Furthermore, the title and the introductory text, as well as conventions, guide us to the double ko solution. In particular, the introduction tells us that the collection is a mixture of old and new problems. The main characteristic of old problems is that they show us the myoki (wonderful wizardry) in the solutions. The problems were objets d'art, intended for discussion (exactly as we have here). The "solution" was to find the beauty, the wizardry, the talking point. A mini-algorithm approach might give an easier (and uglier) solution, but that is to miss the point. Although this enlightened and enlightening way of viewing problems was essentially a Chinese one, and was underpinned by names for problems that either led to spotting a fancy solution or that gave food for thought in the discussion, the Japanese encapsulated the implied conventions in the term tsumego. A tsumego is a compressed or miniaturised go position. The rest of the board (or the state of play) doesn't matter. That convention also applies to "new" problems. A problem is a problem, not a mini-game. The derived conventions (such as ladders work, ko threats elsewhere are irrelevant) are well known but are sometimes still spelled out in books and magazines. This is not least because tsumego problems have often been used as prize competitions and so competition rules have to be clearly stated. Shikatsu Myoki was the result of precisely such a prize competition series in a newspaper. So, while finding new wrinkles, as here, is commendable, it does not mean that the original problem was in any way wrong or flawed (although, of course, some old problems have been found to be flawed, most often because of missing or misplaced stones, probably due to editorial interventions, or carvos). |
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| Author: | Gérard TAILLE [ Wed Jul 21, 2021 2:30 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Shikatsu Myoki Tsumego Series |
Kirby wrote: Gérard TAILLE wrote: Shaddy wrote: Due to this variant I think black may be a mistake and I prefer simply taking the corner with ko by:In any case thank you for your help Shaddy, I appreciate. Wow, this position is more interesting than I thought. If black plays like that, can white just do this? Then if black plays at 'a', there's another double ko at 'b' and 'c'. Yes Kirby the black position seems not quite good. I agree with you. Where are we? The solution given is the following: white is living by double ko and we may (?) assume later the exchange Looking at all this sequence it seems to me the exchange   is not good for white.So my first question is the following Isn't it better for white to take immediatly the ko on the left by here above? What is the best answer for black?Second question: seeing the result above isn't it better for black to play simply the sente yose by |
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| Author: | Gérard TAILLE [ Mon Apr 25, 2022 2:02 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Shikatsu Myoki Tsumego Series |
https://senseis.xmp.net/?ShikatsuMyokiTsumegoSeries156 It is said that the following sequence is a failure for white: and black has managed to get a ko. It is true OC.  is probably a wrong move but the moves  and  seem also wrong.Beginning with the white move I believe white can win the race without any condition by playing at "a" or "b". Do you agree?
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| Author: | hnishy [ Sun Sep 29, 2024 6:27 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Shikatsu Myoki Tsumego Series |
Note added to the SL Solution page. The confusion seems to be caused by a difference in problem conventions, old and new. |
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