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Ask a question, get an answer (hopefully)
http://www.lifein19x19.com/viewtopic.php?f=12&t=3137		 Page 1 of 2
Author:  Tabemasu [ Sat Feb 05, 2011 7:40 am ]
Post subject:  Ask a question, get an answer (hopefully)
I've been meaning to do this for a while, but I just haven't gotten around to it.

Anyway, the idea is that you ask some Go related question (ideally with a diagram) and I'll do my best to answer it. I'll probably try to check this thread once or twice a day or more if it becomes popular.

Hope I can be of some help!
Author:  Magicwand [ Sat Feb 05, 2011 7:46 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Ask a question, get an answer (hopefully)
Tabemasu wrote:
I've been meaning to do this for a while, but I just haven't gotten around to it.

Anyway, the idea is that you ask some Go related question (ideally with a diagram) and I'll do my best to answer it. I'll probably try to check this thread once or twice a day or more if it becomes popular.

Hope I can be of some help!


question: players weaker than you can participate in discussion in this thread??
Author:  Tabemasu [ Sat Feb 05, 2011 7:51 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Ask a question, get an answer (hopefully)
Sure, if you think you can answer the question or have comments or questions about my answers then please don't hesitate.
Author:  Joaz Banbeck [ Sat Feb 05, 2011 9:43 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Ask a question, get an answer (hopefully)
In the following game, I'd like an opinion on the sequence from 69-105.( Please no comments past 105 because the game is still being played. ) At move 68, white has two running groups, black one. I felt that black had the better prospects. Yet after 124 white seems to be doing better.

In particular:
At 68, which side would you prefer?
Is 69 the right direction?
Is 95 an overplay?

Thanks.
Author:  Tabemasu [ Sat Feb 05, 2011 2:23 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Ask a question, get an answer (hopefully)
Q: At 68, which side would you prefer?
A: I think W is better. It's very hard for me to call Whites group on the top right running, it's almost alive as is. B also doesn't have much territory or potential.

Q: Is 69 the right direction?
A: I think 69 is the correct direction.

Q: Is 95 an overplay?
A: I'm not sure what other choice you have here, you have to live with your group, and it seems like a good way to do so.

I think you got in a little trouble at 81. Instead of the sequence you played, I would simply play at m13. You can make 2 eyes this way if you need to, but I'm not sure that will even be necessary since I don't see a way for W to seal.
Author:  stalkor [ Thu Feb 17, 2011 4:36 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Ask a question, get an answer (hopefully)
here is a game i played in real life last wednesday against a 1k for the national go competition here in holland. I wonder what your thoughts are about the game and if there were huge mistakes.

i try and focus much of my time on the opening of the game, that helps me usually throughout the game to prevent me from having to do stupid stuff.

I looked at the game with topazg and he felt the invasion on the lower side should be 4th line, what do you think?

edit: i'm black
[sgf-full]http://www.lifein19x19.com/forum/download/file.php?id=725[/sgf-full]

Attachments:
16-2-11 johan-bas.sgf [1.48 KiB]
Downloaded 1111 times
Author:  Tabemasu [ Thu Feb 17, 2011 5:31 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Ask a question, get an answer (hopefully)
Since the question was to review an entire game, I just covered the most important points and didn't go into much detail.

So I guess if you want a review I'll just give a brief review, if you have a specific question I can go into the details.



Attachments:
16-2-11 johan-bas-r.sgf [2.25 KiB]
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Author:  Redundant [ Sun Feb 20, 2011 10:20 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Ask a question, get an answer (hopefully)
Here's the opening from an ongoing game of mine on DGS. I wonder what your thoughts are about this position. Don't worry about spoilers, as this corner is settled (game is currently in yose).
]
Author:  Tabemasu [ Sun Feb 20, 2011 5:06 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Ask a question, get an answer (hopefully)
I only know a few things about a similar position, I hope it's helpful.



Attachments:
position1.sgf [940 Bytes]
Downloaded 1187 times
Author:  Kirby [ Sun Feb 20, 2011 5:23 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Ask a question, get an answer (hopefully)
Tabemasu wrote:
I've been meaning to do this for a while, but I just haven't gotten around to it.

Anyway, the idea is that you ask some Go related question (ideally with a diagram) and I'll do my best to answer it. I'll probably try to check this thread once or twice a day or more if it becomes popular.

Hope I can be of some help!


What is my biggest flaw in playing go (sorry, no diagram)?
Author:  Phelan [ Sun Feb 20, 2011 5:53 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Ask a question, get an answer (hopefully)
What is the status of the top white group in this thread? I think mw42's ko for seki seems the best answer, but I'd like to be sure. If I only get one question, what I'd really like to know is if it would give a good tsumego.
Author:  Chew Terr [ Mon Feb 21, 2011 9:18 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Ask a question, get an answer (hopefully)
Can you recommend a good way to learn or better understand how to make use of thickness? Or is the best way to simply play for thickness often so that you get a better set of experience covering what can be done with it?
Author:  Kirby [ Mon Feb 21, 2011 6:46 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Ask a question, get an answer (hopefully)
Chew Terr wrote:
Can you recommend a good way to learn or better understand how to make use of thickness? Or is the best way to simply play for thickness often so that you get a better set of experience covering what can be done with it?



This reminds me of another question: How do you quantify thickness/influence? I have asked this before, and I think that the consensus is that it depends on later game. But are there any more precise strategies that you know of to get an idea of whether thickness or influence is worth as much as set territory?

Just compare to joseki, maybe?
Author:  Chew Terr [ Tue Feb 22, 2011 9:43 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Ask a question, get an answer (hopefully)
Kirby wrote:
Chew Terr wrote:
Can you recommend a good way to learn or better understand how to make use of thickness? Or is the best way to simply play for thickness often so that you get a better set of experience covering what can be done with it?



This reminds me of another question: How do you quantify thickness/influence? I have asked this before, and I think that the consensus is that it depends on later game. But are there any more precise strategies that you know of to get an idea of whether thickness or influence is worth as much as set territory?

Just compare to joseki, maybe?


Hmmm. The answer I've heard most on this is that you get positional judgement from 'experience'. That hardly seems like a tangible goal though, and I don't even know how to start. =/
Author:  Tabemasu [ Wed Feb 23, 2011 4:36 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Ask a question, get an answer (hopefully)
Kirby wrote:
What is my biggest flaw in playing go (sorry, no diagram)?

Dunno, I would have to study your games to make a guess :)

Chew Terr wrote:
Can you recommend a good way to learn or better understand how to make use of thickness? Or is the best way to simply play for thickness often so that you get a better set of experience covering what can be done with it?

It seems to me making use of thickness is one of the hardest thing to do in Go. That said... studying professional games with a strong player and playing for thickness and getting the games reviewed are the best ways I can think of.
Author:  Tabemasu [ Wed Feb 23, 2011 5:06 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Ask a question, get an answer (hopefully)
Phelan wrote:
What is the status of the top white group in this thread? I think mw42's ko for seki seems the best answer, but I'd like to be sure. If I only get one question, what I'd really like to know is if it would give a good tsumego.


I think it should be alive unconditionally if W doesn't mind losing points in the upper left corner.

Solution
If black starts at B1 then after W2 'a' and 'b' become miai for W to live.
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . a . 2 . . O . b 1 . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . O O X O O . X . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . X , X . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . X . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . X O O X . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . O . O O X X . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . O X X X O O X |
$$ | . . O . X . . . . . . X X O X O O O . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . , X X O O X X X O . |
$$ | . O X X . . . . . . X O . . O X O . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . X O . O X O O . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . . . X . O . O O . X |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . . . . . . X X X X . |
$$ | . . . O X . . . . , . . X X X O O O . |
$$ | . . . O . X . . . . . . X O O . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . X O O . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


If black starts from the other direction, here are a few diagrams.

Double ko.
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . 0 . 8 7 . 6 . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . 1 . . O a 9 . 2 3 . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . O O X O O 4 X . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . X b X . . 5 . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . X . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . X O O X . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . O . O O X X . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . O X X X O O X |
$$ | . . O . X . . . . . . X X O X O O O . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . , X X O O X X X O . |
$$ | . O X X . . . . . . X O . . O X O . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . X O . O X O O . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . . . X . O . O O . X |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . . . . . . X X X X . |
$$ | . . . O X . . . . , . . X X X O O O . |
$$ | . . . O . X . . . . . . X O O . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . X O O . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Another one :)
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . 9 8 b 6 . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . 1 . . O . 7 0 2 3 . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . O O X O O 4 X . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . X a X . . 5 . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . X . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . X O O X . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . O . O O X X . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . O X X X O O X |
$$ | . . O . X . . . . . . X X O X O O O . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . , X X O O X X X O . |
$$ | . O X X . . . . . . X O . . O X O . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . X O . O X O O . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . . . X . O . O O . X |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . . . . . . X X X X . |
$$ | . . . O X . . . . , . . X X X O O O . |
$$ | . . . O . X . . . . . . X O O . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . X O O . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


a and b become miai to connect.
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . 7 . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . 1 . . O . . 3 2 5 . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . O O X O O 4 X . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . X , X . . 6 . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . X . . 8 . a . X . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . b 9 X O O X . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . O 0 O O X X . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . O X X X O O X |
$$ | . . O . X . . . . . . X X O X O O O . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . , X X O O X X X O . |
$$ | . O X X . . . . . . X O . . O X O . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . X O . O X O O . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . . . X . O . O O . X |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . . . . . . X X X X . |
$$ | . . . O X . . . . , . . X X X O O O . |
$$ | . . . O . X . . . . . . X O O . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . X O O . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


White just lives.
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . 1 4 . O . 6 5 2 . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . O O X O O . X 3 . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . X . X . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . X . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . X O O X . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . O . O O X X . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . O X X X O O X |
$$ | . . O . X . . . . . . X X O X O O O . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . , X X O O X X X O . |
$$ | . O X X . . . . . . X O . . O X O . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . X O . O X O O . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . . . X . O . O O . X |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . . . . . . X X X X . |
$$ | . . . O X . . . . , . . X X X O O O . |
$$ | . . . O . X . . . . . . X O O . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . X O O . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Going back to this diagram, this is probably the best way to play for black.
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . 3 2 . . O . 4 1 . . . . . . |
$$ | . . 5 . . X . O O X O O . X . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . X . X . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . X . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . X O O X . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . O . O O X X . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . O X X X O O X |
$$ | . . O . X . . . . . . X X O X O O O . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . , X X O O X X X O . |
$$ | . O X X . . . . . . X O . . O X O . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . X O . O X O O . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . . . X . O . O O . X |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . . . . . . X X X X . |
$$ | . . . O X . . . . , . . X X X O O O . |
$$ | . . . O . X . . . . . . X O O . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . X O O . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


I think that covers it, if you have any other questions about this let me know. As a TsumeGo it seems like it's interesting.

Also, you can ask more than one question, just don't flood the thread with questions, let everybody who wants a turn have one.
Author:  HermanHiddema [ Wed Feb 23, 2011 6:06 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Ask a question, get an answer (hopefully)
@stalkor:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$W Seki
$$ . . . . . . . . . .
$$ . . . . . . . . . .
$$ . . . . . . . . . .
$$ . O O O . . . . . .
$$ O X O X O O . . . .
$$ O X X X X . O . O .
$$ O X . 1 2 X X O . .
$$ . X 6 3 5 . 4 . . .
$$ -------------------[/go]
Author:  walleye [ Wed Feb 23, 2011 9:19 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Ask a question, get an answer (hopefully)
A question about joseki. Pros never play :b1: , so why is it bad? It looks like Black can get a good result.

viewtopic.php?f=15&t=414
Author:  cyclops [ Fri Feb 25, 2011 5:44 pm ]
Post subject:  handicap joseki
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wc
$$ +---------------------------------------+
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . 1 . b . c . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . 2 . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . a . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ +---------------------------------------+[/go]


In my joseki dictionary I can't find B2. If it is wrong, why?
To me it seems the perfect balance between an extension from the top right and a pincer against W1. Also in handicap games black is advised to play for influence so I prefer to play high instead of c.
Author:  jts [ Fri Feb 25, 2011 6:10 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: handicap joseki
cyclops wrote:
In my joseki dictionary I can't find B2.


Maybe josekipedia isn't as authoritative as your dictionary, but fwiw:
The three space high pincer works very well if Black has some handicap stones to back it up and create a moyo. ----- Source: Cosmic Go: A Guide to Four-Stone Handicap Games - p. 11
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