what the best move

phillip1882 · #1

in a 3 stone handi against a 1k my opponent (white) tends to favor this opening.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Wc $$----------------------------------------- $$| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$| . . . 1 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$| . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . | $$| . . 2 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$| . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . | $$| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 4 . . | $$| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 5 . 3 . . | $$| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$| . . . X . . . . . , . . . 6 . X . . . | $$| . . . . . . . . . . . 7 . . . . . . . | $$| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$-----------------------------------------[/go]

how should black follow up?

Joaz Banbeck · #2

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Wc $$----------------------------------------- $$| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$| . . . 1 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$| . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . | $$| . . 2 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$| . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . | $$| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 4 . . | $$| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 5 . 3 . . | $$| . . . . . . . . . . . . 8 . . . . . . | $$| . . . X . . . . . , . . . 6 . X . . . | $$| . . . . . . . . . . . 7 . . . . . . . | $$| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$-----------------------------------------[/go]

Gotta get gbreakfst. If time allows, I'l return to say why I think it is best.

Kirby · #3

I think you should try to move out with your stones. It's good to make your own plan, though.

I'd probably consider this, first:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Wc $$----------------------------------------- $$| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$| . . . 1 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$| . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . | $$| . . 2 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$| . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . | $$| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 4 . . | $$| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 5 . 3 . . | $$| . . . . . . . . . . . . 8 . . . . . . | $$| . . . X . . . . . , . . . 6 . X . . . | $$| . . . . . . . . . . . 7 . . . . . . . | $$| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$-----------------------------------------[/go]

Then, maybe this (though it might strengthen his stone):

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Wc $$----------------------------------------- $$| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$| . . . 1 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$| . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . | $$| . . 2 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$| . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . | $$| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 4 . . | $$| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 5 . 3 . . | $$| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$| . . . X . . . . . , . 8 . 6 . X . . . | $$| . . . . . . . . . . . 7 . . . . . . . | $$| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$-----------------------------------------[/go]

I also might consider kicking first:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Wc $$----------------------------------------- $$| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$| . . . 1 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$| . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . | $$| . . 2 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$| . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . | $$| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 4 . . | $$| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 9 . . | $$| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 5 . 3 . . | $$| . . . . . . . . . . . . 0 . . . 8 . . | $$| . . . X . . . . . , . . . 6 . X . . . | $$| . . . . . . . . . . . 7 . . . . . . . | $$| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$-----------------------------------------[/go]

The kick may not be good, I guess.

Anyway, these are the moves I'd be thinking of.

I briefly thought of pincering the stone, but it's risky because you start to get enclosed:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Wc $$----------------------------------------- $$| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$| . . . 1 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$| . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . | $$| . . 2 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$| . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . | $$| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 4 . . | $$| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 5 . 3 . . | $$| . . . . . . . . . . . 9 . . . . . . . | $$| . . . X . . . . . , . . . 6 . X . . . | $$| . . . . . . . . 8 . . 7 . . . . . . . | $$| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$-----------------------------------------[/go]

Edit: Ninja'd by Joaz...

Shaddy · #4

You could also not play the one-space pincer, which would make things easy.. or 6 could be low.

phillip1882 · #5

in the first game we played, i did the following

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Bc $$----------------------------------------- $$| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$| . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$| . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . | $$| . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$| . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . | $$| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . | $$| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$| . . . . . . . . . . . . . 1 O . O . . | $$| . . . . . . . . . . . . . 3 2 . . . . | $$| . . . X . . . . . , . . . X 4 X 8 . . | $$| . . . . . . . . 9 . . O . 7 5 6 . . . | $$| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$-----------------------------------------[/go]

my resoning was: since both the two sone groups are weak, i attach and make both stronger.
though i ended up losing, this seems like correct thinking to me.

Joaz Banbeck · #6

There is no need to make either stronger. Just push out between the two, thereby threatening both.

When you attach, you commit yourself. When you push between without attaching, you have greater flexibility to attack either one. He defends one, then you crush the other. Play so that he has to commit first.

Joaz Banbeck · #7

Shaddy wrote:

You could also not play the one-space pincer, which would make things easy...

The one-space pincer did seen a tad agressive to me too.

@OP: However, if you had another stone nearby, such as the marked stone like this:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Wc $$----------------------------------------- $$| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$| . . . 1 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$| . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . | $$| . . 2 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . # . . | $$| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$| . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . | $$| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 4 . . | $$| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 3 . . | $$| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$| . . . X . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . | $$| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$-----------------------------------------[/go]

...or this:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Wc $$----------------------------------------- $$| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$| . . . 1 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$| . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . | $$| . . 2 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$| . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . | $$| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 4 . . | $$| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 3 . . | $$| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$| . . . X . . . . . , . . . # . X . . . | $$| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$-----------------------------------------[/go]

...then the tight pincer seems reasonable.
But the problem with the unsupported one-space pincer is that he runs out with 5, and now he is threatening 7 at 'a' or 'b' or 'c':

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Wc $$----------------------------------------- $$| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$| . . . 1 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$| . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . | $$| . . 2 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$| . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , a . . | $$| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . b . . . | $$| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 4 . . | $$| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 5 . 3 . . | $$| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$| . . . X . . . . . , . . . c . X . . . | $$| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$-----------------------------------------[/go]

Your opponent made a mistake with 7, creating a second local group before the first was safe. He should have done something more like this:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Wc $$----------------------------------------- $$| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$| . . . 1 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$| . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . | $$| . . 2 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$| . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . 9 . . . | $$| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 7 8 . . | $$| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 4 . . | $$| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 5 . 3 . . | $$| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$| . . . X . . . . . , . . . 6 . X . . . | $$| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$-----------------------------------------[/go]

...and now the force of your pincer has been blunted.

Shaddy wrote:

... or 6 could be low.

IMHO, 6 has to be high to be consistent with 4. As mentioned above, 4 is probably an overplay, but 6 low just gives up on the attack.

Dusk Eagle · #8

I have to respectfully disagree with Joaz. The one-space pincer is fine IMO. Continuing from where his last diagram left off,

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Bc $$----------------------------------------- $$| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$| . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$| . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . | $$| . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 5 . . | $$| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 4 . . . | $$| . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . O 3 . . | $$| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O B . . | $$| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 2 1 X . . | $$| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . O . . | $$| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$| . . . X . . . . . , . . . X . X . . . | $$| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$-----------------------------------------[/go]

I see no reason why it's bad to play like this. You also have other choices instead of the marked black stone as well.

I also believe you have a choice whether to play :b6:

high or low. If you're interested, see lessons 135-137 here, for a bunch of the variations that can ensue.

yoyoma · #9

Joaz Banbeck wrote:

The one-space pincer did seen a tad agressive to me too.
----------------------
As mentioned above, 4 is probably an overplay...

Nonsense.

I don't know what to write here, I almost feel like I'm being trolled here or something. One space pincer is overplay? Black even has a stone in the other corner...

SoDesuNe · **#10**

In my four-stones-handicap-games I always play the one-space-low-pincer, if White takes the corner, I get Sente and make a San-Ren-Sei-Formation. If White jumps up, I play like this

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Wc $$----------------------------------------- $$| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$| . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$| . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . | $$| . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$| . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . 5 . . . | $$| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 1 4 . . | $$| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 3 2 X . . | $$| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . a . . . | $$| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . O 7 . | $$| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 6 8 . | $$| . . . X . . . . . , . . . X . X . . . | $$| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$-----------------------------------------[/go]

White still has to catch those three stones (Sente for Black), 'a' has a lot of Aji and I have a huge corner. I like : )

LovroKlc · **#11**

yoyoma wrote:

Joaz Banbeck wrote:

The one-space pincer did seen a tad agressive to me too.
----------------------
As mentioned above, 4 is probably an overplay...

Nonsense.

I don't know what to write here, I almost feel like I'm being trolled here or something. One space pincer is overplay? Black even has a stone in the other corner...

yup... feels allright for me. and jumping out is usually bad for W. he should get san-san or double-pincer.

Solomon · **#12**

SoDesuNe wrote:

In my four-stones-handicap-games I always play the one-space-low-pincer, if White takes the corner, I get Sente and make a San-Ren-Sei-Formation. If White jumps up, I play like this

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Wc $$----------------------------------------- $$| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$| . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$| . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . | $$| . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$| . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . 5 . . . | $$| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 1 4 . . | $$| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 3 2 X . . | $$| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . a . . . | $$| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . O 7 . | $$| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 6 8 . | $$| . . . X . . . . . , . . . X . X . . . | $$| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$-----------------------------------------[/go]

White still has to catch those three stones (Sente for Black), 'a' has a lot of Aji and I have a huge corner. I like : )

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Wc $$----------------------------------------- $$| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$| . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$| . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . | $$| . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$| . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . O 1 . . | $$| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O X . . | $$| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O X X . . | $$| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . O O . | $$| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X X . | $$| . . . X . . . . . , . . . X . X . . . | $$| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$-----------------------------------------[/go]

This is not good for Black.

SoDesuNe · **#13**

Yeah, my opponent kept saying, it's good enough for White and I kept playing it. Still, now he always takes the corner or plays funny variations ^^

Bill Spight · **#14**

phillip1882 wrote:

in the first game we played, i did the following

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Bc $$----------------------------------------- $$| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$| . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$| . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . | $$| . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$| . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . | $$| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . | $$| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$| . . . . . . . . . . . . . 1 O . O . . | $$| . . . . . . . . . . . . . 3 2 . . . . | $$| . . . X . . . . . , . . . X 4 X 8 . . | $$| . . . . . . . . 9 . . O . 7 5 6 . . . | $$| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$-----------------------------------------[/go]

my resoning was: since both the two sone groups are weak, i attach and make both stronger.
though i ended up losing, this seems like correct thinking to me.

Not to me.

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The kosumi, :b1:

, strengthens the :bc:

stones without strengthening the :wc:

stones. Isn't that a better idea?

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Bc $$----------------------------------------- $$| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$| . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$| . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . | $$| . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$| . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . | $$| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . B . . | $$| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$| . . . . . . . . . . . . . 1 O . O . . | $$| . . . . . . . . . . . . . 3 2 . . . . | $$| . . . X . . . . . , . . . X 4 # 8 . . | $$| . . . . . . . . 9 . . W . 7 5 6 . . . | $$| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$-----------------------------------------[/go]

In your variation, the :wc:

stone is weakened, but the :bs:

stone is sacrificed and the :bc:

stone is weakened.

EdLee · **#15**

No problem with the one-space pincer :b2:

, and

kosumi is a very natural move...

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$W $$. . . . . . . . . | $$. . . . . . 2 . . | $$. . . . . . . . . | $$. . . . 3 . 1 . . | $$. . 6 . . . . . . | $$. . . 4 . X . . . | $$. 5 . . . . . . . | $$. . . . . . . . . | $$. . . . . . . . . | $$-------------------[/go]

...because B does not want to be boxed in by :ws:

:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$W $$. . . . . . . . . | $$. . . . . . X . . | $$. . . . . . . . . | $$. . . . O . O . . | $$. . @ . . . . . . | $$. . . X . X . . . | $$. O . . . . . . . | $$. . . . . . . . . | $$. . . . . . . . . | $$-------------------[/go]

If W cannot close B with one move (say :ws:

above), then B can consider a pincer in the :b4:

direction,
(could also be at (a) or (b), etc.) which also works well with the existing :bs:

stone:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$W $$| . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . | $$| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 1 . . | $$| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$| . . . # . . . . . , . . . 2 . X . . . | $$| . . . . . . . b 4 a . 3 . . . . . . . | $$| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$-----------------------------------------[/go]

Bill Spight · **#16**

Joaz Banbeck wrote:

Shaddy wrote:

You could also not play the one-space pincer, which would make things easy...

The one-space pincer did seen a tad agressive to me too.

I agree.

Not that the one space pincer is incorrect. It may actually be the best play, for all I know. However, as a practical matter it seems, as Joaz says, a bit too aggressive for a three stone game. Generally in a handicap game it is up to White to seek complications. The one space pincer makes that easier than less aggressive pincers. (OC, if it suits your style, go right ahead.

)

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Wc $$----------------------------------------- $$| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$| . . . 1 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$| . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . | $$| . . 2 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$| . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . | $$| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 4 . . . | $$| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 5 . 3 . . | $$| . . . . . . . . . . . . 8 . . . . . . | $$| . . . X . . . . . , . . . 6 . X . . . | $$| . . . . . . . . . . . 7 . . . . . . . | $$| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$-----------------------------------------[/go]

For instance, with a two space high pincer, :b4:

, if White tries the same tactics, after :b8:

White has no strong counterattack against the pincer stone.

EdLee · **#17**

Bill Spight wrote:

I agree.

Ah, it's not the pincer part, but the one-space (low) part you were referring to. :mrgreen:

illluck · **#18**

Then again, in general pincers are more complicated than extensions.

For example, this can be tough for the weaker player.

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Harleqin · **#19**

Since White has neglected to press the pincer stone, I would be inclined to play like this:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Bc $$----------------------------------------- $$| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$| . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$| . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . | $$| . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$| . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . | $$| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 1 . X . . | $$| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$| . . . . . . . . . . . . 2 . O . O . . | $$| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$| . . . X . . . . . , . 3 . X . X . . . | $$| . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . . . . | $$| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$-----------------------------------------[/go]

This seems to make the splitting with :b3:

more forceful, since the distance between the white groups is smaller. :b1:

could be seen as an inducing move.

what the best move

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