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All my games ends in dragon chases!
http://www.lifein19x19.com/viewtopic.php?f=12&t=4275		 Page 1 of 1
Author:  jes_595 [ Mon Jul 18, 2011 2:18 am ]
Post subject:  All my games ends in dragon chases!
Lately it seems that no matter how i try to mix my game up, theres always some HUGE capture race involved deciding the winner.
Any way/tips that could help me improve past this point? :-?
Author:  topazg [ Mon Jul 18, 2011 2:22 am ]
Post subject:  Re: All my games ends in dragon chases!
Perhaps, with a couple of examples anyway? :)
Author:  Li Kao [ Mon Jul 18, 2011 2:26 am ]
Post subject:  Re: All my games ends in dragon chases!
So envious. I love hunting dragons.
Author:  jes_595 [ Mon Jul 18, 2011 2:31 am ]
Post subject:  Re: All my games ends in dragon chases!
haha, guess that would help. this game was the most recent one i played.. ^^
Author:  tj86430 [ Mon Jul 18, 2011 2:37 am ]
Post subject:  Re: All my games ends in dragon chases!
Can't white escape by just playing H11 at move 110?

e: other comments (although these are more like questions due to my level)
- I'd play B49 @ O5, it seems that W can't make two eyes so just sealing him in should suffice.
- I'd play B73 @ R4 (or R3), letting him have one eye @P4 doesn't make him alive
Author:  Psychee [ Mon Jul 18, 2011 2:49 am ]
Post subject:  Re: All my games ends in dragon chases!
jes_595 wrote:
Lately it seems that no matter how i try to mix my game up, theres always some HUGE capture race involved deciding the winner.
Any way/tips that could help me improve past this point? :-?



I'd wish my games are like yours.
Author:  EdLee [ Mon Jul 18, 2011 2:52 am ]
Post subject: 
jes_595 wrote:
no matter how i try to mix my game up
It takes two to tango. :)
Author:  jes_595 [ Mon Jul 18, 2011 2:57 am ]
Post subject:  Re: All my games ends in dragon chases!
yeh, that R4 move is lookin pretty good. Wish i though of that in-game.. ^^;
Author:  topazg [ Mon Jul 18, 2011 3:15 am ]
Post subject:  Re: All my games ends in dragon chases!
:b29: @ E4 seems a lot bigger
:b39: @ H3 seems a bit more honest somehow. Making a second move here as well to prevent an eye with :b41: was a bit painful, albeit with very strong shape
:b45: @ O6 looks a lot better to my eyes. Much better to have him messing around on the 2nd line than you. In my experience, moves like O2 are moves you play when you are almost guaranteed to kill. He's got some weaknesses of yours to aim it, and _unless_ you kill, O2 is worth almost nothing to you
:b73: @ R4 is a must. For one thing, this high stakes kill or die style of play can turn the game into a coin toss, for another, even if he takes P3, he only has one eye. After that, you just need to read carefully if you have time to play K2 and aim to kill it, or H6, let it live in gote, and swallow F3 on a big scale. You'll automatically neutralise his upper right moyo if he tries to save K6, and net points if he opts to sacrifice them, so the game seems to look pleasant for you here.
:b85: @ K4 is much better. You are being greedy here. You've turned this entire game into a "kill the dragon or lose" game, and it isn't necessary (although, getting more so after he charged into the lower right corner).

As Ed says, it takes two to Tango :)

I think your opponent played a few unreasonable overplays at the bottom - never underestimate the value of forcing him to spend a number of inside moves making his two eyes whilst you build strong outside thickness in sente!
Author:  jes_595 [ Mon Jul 18, 2011 3:55 am ]
Post subject:  Re: All my games ends in dragon chases!
Haha, Thanks a bunch Topazg! Very useful information here.
Gota go put this to use now! (:

Anyways, many thanks you guys. Mahalo. ^^
Author:  daniel_the_smith [ Mon Jul 18, 2011 7:45 am ]
Post subject:  Re: All my games ends in dragon chases!
Scattered thoughts.

I recommend you try playing a few games with a slightly different goal. Don't play to kill, even if you think you can-- play to make them live small and in gote. I think a few games with that goal would be good for you.

Chasing a group across the board like that almost never works out against a player at the same level, you have to have truly overwhelming thickness. And there's no plan B if you fail. So, don't try to kill. You should only be killing groups if the opponent makes a big blunder anyway.

Always have a plan B. If you have no plan B, and you aren't 100% sure of success, then you already made a mistake.

If you ignore this and try to kill anyway (and if you're anything like me you will :D ), estimate how likely you are to succeed, and make a note. If you play 10 games where you're 90% sure you can kill, and you actually make the kill in only 5 games, then you are badly miscalibrated, and you need to think in your games: "when it feels like I have a 90% chance to kill, that means I actually, in fact, have only a 50% chance to kill." Perhaps that knowledge will help you make better plan B's.

If you make him live small in gote two or three times, then the forth time he tries an invasion, you may be able to kill. :twisted:

A kill is fun now, but a won game is more fun later when you look at your rating graph.
Author:  emeraldemon [ Mon Jul 18, 2011 8:31 am ]
Post subject:  Re: All my games ends in dragon chases!
I often have the same problem (I think it's Kyu Disease). One thing that helps me: try to figure out if you're winning before you go for the kill. If you're ahead, you can afford to play a bit more cautiously, make sure you always stay connected and don't push the opponent into your territory. Odds are even if you don't kill the group, you can hassle it for much of the game. Of course, it's a bad feeling to play this way and then realize you weren't ahead after all...
Author:  Laman [ Tue Jul 19, 2011 3:27 am ]
Post subject:  Re: All my games ends in dragon chases!
if you are winning, it is ok to allow yourself a little fun. if you are losing, you have to risk anyway. (joking)


seriously, i think that attack and kill is a perfectly valid way of play, though it might not render the best win/loss ratio, plus it is very enjoyable. on the other hand, i most admire players who are able to play quietly and peacefully every move and then just end up winning after all, but it doesn't suit me, so i play what i can best. look at professional players, some of them also like chasing dragons

my last game, nice example (i suppose both i and my opponent made dozens of mistakes and there could be easier paths to victory, but it worked):
Author:  dangomango [ Tue Jul 19, 2011 12:15 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: All my games ends in dragon chases!
move like 115 is questionable because your bamboo joint can be cut if white goes j10
move 33 is questionable too, seems too heavy with no purpose
after white 40, i would attack white with full force at around g6, seems like a kill
after white 70, k2 seems like a kill
after white 90, f6 is huge

many many more questionable moves made by both sides
i think you try to save many groups and attack many groups
while in the process you missed a couple killing moves, also seems to misintrepret strengths of group

in attack and defense, the most fundamental knowledge is identifying the weakest groups, identifying strong groups
many chances were missed in game

so maybe go relearn the basic fundamental
learn what is weak what is strong
what can be sacrificed
what is a useless stone
what is a useful stone to save

also have a plan
what do you gain when you attack? territory? thickness? attacks 2 group with 1 move?
how to use your surrounding thickness to attack?
maybe attack later?
can you invade safely? or only reduce?

there's also a proverb called "urgent before big"
pretty much, I'll try to use that proverb for every move I make to find the best move
Interpretation of "urgent" changes as you get stronger and stronger.
What might look urgent to you might not be urgent to a stronger player.

I don't really think your game involves huge capture race with dragons
because many moves in game could be the game deciding moves
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