Checklist to improve go game

Dedalus · #1

I read Checklist Manifesto by Atul Garwade a while back, and recently I realized that a good bit of why I'm still 4k is because I make mistakes that a 10k who is paying attention wouldn't make. Not making bonehead mistakes in kyu level go seems like a very good reason to develop a checklist.

I'm proposing the clever people on this forum work towards generating a definitive checklist for go moves. I'm thinking of 7-10 line items, that if you can check-off, you know your move isn't terrible and game losing.

Now it'll be tempting, particularly for the high dans here to want to add checklist items like "Is this move good shape?" But let's face it, us SDKs can tell good shape from bad only when the wind is north-north-west. I'm thinking more of simple easy to check entries - the sorts of things you can tell your DDK friends to never do.

I've drafted a terrible first try below - I'd love to hear your thoughts:

1). Are any stones in atari?
If so, do you intend to sacrifice those stones? If not, play save those stones.

2). Are all of your groups alive?
If not, does the move help your uncertain groups connect out or live?

3). Think about where you expect your opponent to play in response to your move -> does it feel obviously like a thank you move?

4). Think about where you want to play after this move -> can you make that move first skipping this move?

5). Is your intended move deviating from the josekis you know? Be certain you want to make the move

6). If you play elsewhere (somewhere big) will any stones die?

7). Have you definitely killed stones that you think you have killed? If not, play honte and kill then.

8). Does this move form an empty triangle?

This list has many drawbacks and is poorly ordered. Can you do better? Remember - don't put down anything that is not easy to evaluate, no "does this over concentrate your opponent" or "Is this the biggest move"? My goal is to have a list that I can print out, and force myself to go through before playing every move, so the list should be short and quick to evaluate.

LocoRon · #2

That's kind a big list...

Here's the checklist I use (when I'm not being stupid):

1: Do I have a weak group? If so, protect it.
2: Does my opponent have a weak group? If so, find a way to attack it.
3: What's a big move?

I didn't come up with this myself, but it's definitely my favorite checklist.

daniel_the_smith · #3

Yilun Yang has a number of checklists; you should look into his books or a workshop if that's what you're looking for.

Joaz Banbeck · #4

[ the underlining is mine -JB ]

Malcolm Gladwell wrote:

Over the past decade, through his writing in The New Yorker magazine and his books Complications and Better, Atul Gawande has made a name for himself as a writer of exquisitely crafted meditations on the problems and challenges of modern medicine. His latest book, The Checklist Manifesto, begins on familiar ground, with his experiences as a surgeon. But before long it becomes clear that he is really interested in a problem that afflicts virtually every aspect of the modern world--and that is how professionals deal with the increasing complexity of their responsibilities. It has been years since I read a book so powerful and so thought-provoking.

Gawande begins by making a distinction between errors of ignorance (mistakes we make because we don't know enough), and errors of ineptitude (mistakes we made because we don’t make proper use of what we know). Failure in the modern world, he writes, is really about the second of these errors, and he walks us through a series of examples from medicine showing how the routine tasks of surgeons have now become so incredibly complicated that mistakes of one kind or another are virtually inevitable: it's just too easy for an otherwise competent doctor to miss a step, or forget to ask a key question or, in the stress and pressure of the moment, to fail to plan properly for every eventuality. Gawande then visits with pilots and the people who build skyscrapers and comes back with a solution. Experts need checklists--literally--written guides that walk them through the key steps in any complex procedure. In the last section of the book, Gawande shows how his research team has taken this idea, developed a safe surgery checklist, and applied it around the world, with staggering success.

The danger, in a review as short as this, is that it makes Gawande’s book seem narrow in focus or prosaic in its conclusions. It is neither. Gawande is a gorgeous writer and storyteller, and the aims of this book are ambitious. Gawande thinks that the modern world requires us to revisit what we mean by expertise: that experts need help, and that progress depends on experts having the humility to concede that they need help.

Gawande wrote:

Despite showing (hospital) staff members of the benefits of using the checklist, 20% resisted stating that it was not easy to use, it took too long and felt it had not improved the safety of care. Yet, when asked an additional question - would you want the checklist to be used if you were having an operation - a full 93% said yes.

daal · #5

Here are two earlier threads on similar topics:

What are your Guidelines

and

Checklist of questions for thoughtful play

Osvaldo · #6

I think that making checklists for yourself is an excellent technique. Over time, the list you construct will become intuitive.

As you get stronger your checklist evolves, and I think that you need to construct a small checklist customised for YOU. And keep it short!

What are the aspects of your game that you need to work on, and what types of things are you lacking focus on while you play? Maybe a stronger player can review some of your games and help you formulate this list (although I'm sure you can figure out your weak points yourself, reviewing your own games)

My checklists:

@5kyu:
is this move too passive?
does this exchange ACTUALLY have a good global result?

@4kyu:
Play faster
is there a bigger sente play somewhere?
estimate points!
surround BEFORE taking eyespace
attack only for profit elsewhere!

@3kyu:
doublecheck to make sure groups are secure
count points more
pay close attention during yose

@2kyu
stay relaxed, just don't make any mistakes. If you are more focused than the other guy, you will win.
count 4-5times per game
try to take the time to count value of yose plays

I think making these checklists has really been helpful to me. In order to figure out what should be on my checklists, I once in a while look at the last 15 games that I lost, and make a "reasons for losing" list, and then create a checklist accordingly.

All the best,
Dave

Knotwilg · #7

Reshaping your list:

BASIC

1). Are any stones in atari?
If so, do you intend to sacrifice those stones? If not, play save those stones.

6). If you play elsewhere (somewhere big) will any stones die?

HIGHER LEVEL

3). Think about where you expect your opponent to play in response to your move -> does it feel obviously like a thank you move?

4). Think about where you want to play after this move -> can you make that move first skipping this move?

SUSPECT

5). Is your intended move deviating from the josekis you know? Be certain you want to make the move

8). Does this move form an empty triangle?

SUPERFLUOUS

2) Are all your groups alive?

7). Have you definitely killed stones that you think you have killed? If not, play honte and kill then.

-----

My list is:

- Technical: Count liberties
- Tactical: evaluate at least 3 moves and read at least 3 deep, always
- Strategical: Cut & connect on a large scale
- Mental: Stay calm and assertive

CXUD · #8

In my experience zooming out to see the whole board is the biggest thing. Before I could keep track of weak groups and strong groups that was my biggest thing, but now it's zooming out in the heat of conflict and trying to keep things in perspective.

Loons · #9

I worry how useful these heuristics actually are (I'm a big proverb-person moreso than checklist, myself); whether we maintain our level because we observe them; or if we remember them because we're our level and that's what we're doing [anyway].

A lot of them seem to boil down to "Given careful observation of the board (and our current skill level) are we able to find a better move than our initial choice?".

Albeit, if a pro recommends something it can't really be bad. Also I guess putting: "Don't be lazy; count" at the top of a checklist can only be good.

-Someone needs to advocate for the devil.

Edit: I was thinking the surgery example may not necessarily generalise to go, but now I can't think how.

daal · **#10**

Loons wrote:

A lot of them seem to boil down to "Given careful observation of the board (and our current skill level) are we able to find a better move than our initial choice?".

While this is probably true, oversimplification is not always a good thing, particularly in go. Each of us has particular tendencies regarding how we choose our moves, and being aware of one's own demons might be a good step in killing them, even if doing so gives rise to new ones. That said, my version:

1. If your candidate move seems ill-advised, look for something else, and before playing that, consider point 1.

Joking aside:

Three deadly sins:

1. Jealousy
2. Greed
3. Anxiety

Checklist to improve go game

Who is online