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Self-commented games
http://www.lifein19x19.com/viewtopic.php?f=12&t=6484		 Page 1 of 1
Author:  Alguien [ Mon Aug 13, 2012 4:50 am ]
Post subject:  Self-commented games
Do you know of any videos or .sgfs of games where one of the players comments on why he made each move and/or what he thinks about the situation at some points? (other than dwyrin's/bat's)


It's easy to find commented games qhere one of the players, or a third person, comments on some moves he considers to be interesting for various reasons.

Recently I've discovered some videos of games commented by one of the players as he plays, usually explaining what he's about to play but also thinking out lout about the situation or the opponent's move.

I've learned a huge lot with those videos, but they are very few. I don't expect other videos like those to exist but maybe there are sgfs where a player did the same "self-commenting".


(The thing is: I learn more from what are normal moves for a middle dan than I do from what he considers interesting. I wouldn't be able to repeat that long reasoning he did to reach a perfect move, but when they just drop a stone without even thinking about it, my eyes go wide and I really try to understand what makes that move so obvious.
My mistakes are still in failing those obvious moves; I'll analyse the convoluted mysteries of go a bit later, if I ever stop committing suicide and gifting life to dead groups.)
Author:  daal [ Mon Aug 13, 2012 7:40 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Self-commented games
This is an easy one. Check out the Malkovitch section here on L19.
Author:  Alguien [ Mon Aug 13, 2012 11:19 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Self-commented games
daal wrote:
This is an easy one. Check out the Malkovitch section here on L19.


Thank you. That does seem to be what I was looking for. The not reading the opponent's comments is purely "honor based"?

It would be nice to have the games in sgf with each post's comments on the move.

edit: I don't see an easy wqay to parse the threads. Either someone could build each file manually or the players themselves as they advance.

Using an sgf with the commentary inside doesn't work because it has no "hide comments and alternative paths" function, that I know of. I'll check whether it's open source or who's the creator of the sgf viewer.

edit2: Ok, it is open source (funny, I've visited eidogo.com a thousand times and I never imagined it was the home page of the viewer itself.). However, there's nothing to do, the viewer already has an option to hide comments and variations. If the Malkovich forum page had it set to false on both cases, a player could upload his sgf with comments and variations, and to read them one would have to click on eidogo's "download sgf" link.

However, thinking about that, there should be no need to upload a different file per move, the file itself could be linked in the first post and players would only have to open it, add their move (plus comments and variations) and re-upload it to the same location.

This would only need:
A - Changing the eidogo parameters in the malkovich page to show no comments or variations.
B - Having a place were both players could upload the game after each move.

edit 3: However, applying that solution would make the entire thing stop being a forum. Which also indicates that it would be quite easier to simply convince people in a turn based go server to comments their games as they move.

Time to hide all this useless drivel.
Author:  jts [ Tue Aug 14, 2012 6:25 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Self-commented games
It's not useless drivel - people have felt the exact same thing that you have, that it would be nice to have an SGF of the Malkovich games, but it's time-consuming to compile. I think a few of the more popular games have an SGF attached. But reading the game page by page doesn't really slow it down that much.
Author:  Alguien [ Wed Aug 15, 2012 11:16 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Self-commented games
jts wrote:
reading the game page by page doesn't really slow it down that much.


It's not a matter of speed, but of availability. It's hard to store forum pages to read during flights, for example.

However, I'm not blind to the advantages of forum commentary, like the additional review of unplayed branches or the analysis by non-players on styles, expected scenarios, etc.
Author:  shapenaji [ Wed Aug 15, 2012 11:33 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Self-commented games
I have a couple videos up on http://twitch.tv/shapenaji

I talk it through a fair amount (Although I played a good number of fast games on one of those videos, and my chat has one too many "You sure about that?", But I do kind've go through variations as quick as I can by hovering the mouse. The resolution could certainly be better though)
Author:  Alguien [ Thu Aug 16, 2012 11:51 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Self-commented games
shapenaji wrote:
I have a couple videos up on http://twitch.tv/shapenaji


I watched the long one (the only one I found) yesterday. It's exactly what I was looking for.

It would have been easier for me if the games were a bit slower, but the tipes of moves you made when you decided to attack are one of the areas I'm weakest at, so they were very interesting.

Thank you for making the video.
Author:  shapenaji [ Fri Aug 17, 2012 12:10 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Self-commented games
Alguien wrote:
I watched the long one (the only one I found) yesterday. It's exactly what I was looking for.

It would have been easier for me if the games were a bit slower, but the tipes of moves you made when you decided to attack are one of the areas I'm weakest at, so they were very interesting.

Thank you for making the video.


Great, I'm glad it was useful, I keep meaning to do them more regularly (the chess guys seem to be up and streaming every night... I'm not sure I have the energy for that,), but if it's something that people like, I'm willing to push myself.
Author:  Alguien [ Fri Aug 17, 2012 1:15 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Self-commented games
shapenaji wrote:
Great, I'm glad it was useful, I keep meaning to do them more regularly (the chess guys seem to be up and streaming every night... I'm not sure I have the energy for that,), but if it's something that people like, I'm willing to push myself.


In case you do decide to make more videos like that one, I'd dare to ask you to separate the videos by game. I (and I suppose other people) end up watching each game several times and if they are separated by game, it's easier to remember which one I've not seen in the longest while and I may have forgotten the most. :)
Author:  SpongeBob [ Sun Aug 19, 2012 1:00 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Self-commented games
shapenaji wrote:
... but if it's something that people like, I'm willing to push myself.

Most definitely!! Nice that you are doing this, thank you.

Currently I am staying on a camping site with lousy internet connection, so I can't really enjoy those - but as soon as I am back, I will watch it.
Author:  Uberdude [ Mon Aug 20, 2012 12:00 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Self-commented games
I review a lot of my OGS games, you can see them at http://www.online-go.com/profile.php?user=6497 (under "Games Reviewed by Uberdude" a few boxes down).

P.S. if you have an account you can turn on the preference to navigate moves with arrow keys which makes replaying in browser a lot easier (if you don't want to download the sgf).
Author:  merik [ Thu Sep 06, 2012 6:00 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Self-commented games
Have you watched Battousai's lecture video's and dan series games? he has close to 80-90 videos on youtube
http://www.youtube.com/user/dwyrin/videos i find them very helpful and informative :tmbup:
Author:  Twitchy Go [ Thu Sep 06, 2012 8:15 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Self-commented games
There is also mrhaandi on youtube, he comments on his games much like Bat's tygem/kgs/igs series.
Author:  siowy [ Wed Nov 21, 2012 5:20 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Self-commented games
http://www.youtube.com/user/heartersg/videos

i just put out one video and plan to put out more.

the sound on the first video is pretty bad though.

i was 6kyu at the time of the video.
Author:  Tami [ Wed Nov 21, 2012 6:15 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Self-commented games
While it's pretty fascinating to hear other people`s comments, I`m starting to feel very wary of doing things like this and malkovich comments (on the Kaya server). The reason is that verbalised thinking is very slow, and by talking or malking while you play you are basically practicing verbal thinking. Every time I malk in a Kaya game it feels distracting, and on the occasions when I`ve attempted to video a game and give live comments I`ve always felt very restricted. Still, YMMV.
Author:  Unusedname [ Mon Nov 26, 2012 5:43 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Self-commented games
jts wrote:
It's not useless drivel - people have felt the exact same thing that you have, that it would be nice to have an SGF of the Malkovich games, but it's time-consuming to compile. I think a few of the more popular games have an SGF attached. But reading the game page by page doesn't really slow it down that much.


Wow you were right about it being time consuming.

The first 50 moves alone took me around 2 hours.

I'll probably work on this between classes since I have a 3 hour gap.

Let me know if there's a specific one someone would like me to do.

Also if you have opinions on formatting let me know. I'm not sure whether to actually play out their diagrams or just plop stones on the board and number them.



Attachments:
Malk 1986(8k) vs Marcus(2k).sgf [22.88 KiB]
Downloaded 971 times
Author:  SpongeBob [ Sun Jun 16, 2013 5:03 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Self-commented games
Twitchy Go wrote:
There is also mrhaandi on youtube, he comments on his games much like Bat's tygem/kgs/igs series.

I get great enjoyment out of watching his games. I absolutely admire his calm playing style (something which is missing in my own games).
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