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 Post subject: Best Of Seven Series (Twitchy Go vs Hailthorn)
Post #1 Posted: Sat Jan 05, 2013 10:01 pm 
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Hello folks, I'm here to propose a seven game series with anyone close to my level. We can schedule each of the games for a time that meets both of our schedules. The purpose of this series is to learn and grow. And hopefully maybe a stronger player could even offer ideas. Plus, a series is always exciting. But if 7 is too long, maybe 3 would also be possible.

So, if anyone is interested, post here and then we can figure out the schedule. :salute:


Series At A Glance: Twitchy Go leads with 3-0

Game 1: Monday, January 7th, 2013- 2:13 PM EST Result: Twitchy Go by 0.5
Game 2: Wednesday, January 16th, 2013- 2:13 PM EST Result: Twitchy Go by Resign
Game 3: Wednesday, January 23rd, 2013- 1:00 PM EST Result: Twitchy Go by Resign
Game 4: Wednesday, February 13th, 2013- 1:00 PM EST Result: TBD

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Last edited by hailthorn011 on Wed Jan 30, 2013 2:13 pm, edited 12 times in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Best Of Seven Series
Post #2 Posted: Sat Jan 05, 2013 11:30 pm 
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Hey Hailthorn. I'm always up for games of a more serious caliber then the KGS auto match. I'm a college student with a relativly relaxed semester going on right now. So I could probably fit into a lot of different times well enough.

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 Post subject: Re: Best Of Seven Series
Post #3 Posted: Sun Jan 06, 2013 12:24 am 
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Twitchy Go wrote:
Hey Hailthorn. I'm always up for games of a more serious caliber then the KGS auto match. I'm a college student with a relativly relaxed semester going on right now. So I could probably fit into a lot of different times well enough.


Awesome. Sounds good then. I'm off from college for the time being, so whatever fits you best will probably work for me.

I'd suggest Game 1 take place on Monday. So if that works for you, I'll be free at any time before 8 PM EST. If not, feel free to offer a time that works better for you.

Although I want to stress that the results of the games aren't my focus. It's more the learning aspect afterward that is more important. Of course, it's been awhile since I had a high tensity game, the last time being the AGA pro exam, so I'm looking forward to this. :D

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 Post subject: Re: Best Of Seven Series
Post #4 Posted: Sun Jan 06, 2013 9:11 am 
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You could try with varying handicaps. If someone wins he get's to play the other one at no komi white, then 2h 3h. That way it'll be close and interesting? Just an idea that I might use if I were to play a best of 7 series ^^

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 Post subject: Re: Best Of Seven Series
Post #5 Posted: Sun Jan 06, 2013 12:16 pm 
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OtakuViking wrote:
You could try with varying handicaps. If someone wins he get's to play the other one at no komi white, then 2h 3h. That way it'll be close and interesting? Just an idea that I might use if I were to play a best of 7 series ^^


That's an interesting idea, but I've found I learn more from an even game than a handicap game. The person fighting against the handicap usually has to play differently to make up for said handicap.

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 Post subject: Re: Best Of Seven Series (Twitchy Go vs Hailthorn)
Post #6 Posted: Mon Jan 07, 2013 2:16 pm 
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And a thrilling Game One goes to Twitchy Go!


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 Post subject: Re: Best Of Seven Series (Twitchy Go vs Hailthorn)
Post #7 Posted: Mon Jan 07, 2013 9:40 pm 
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So since me and hailthorn are playing this set partly in competition and partly to learn from. I thought it might be a useful idea to upload a self commented sgf a la malkovich style. I try to be as true to my real reasoning and feelings as possible, although some confirmation bias is possible. Also this is by no means a review, just a window into my head. I've suggested this idea to hailthorn as I thought seeing our differing ideas about board positions could be interesting. Attached and hidden is the commented game. I have a few questions I'm putting under the sgf viewer

I'd like peoples thoughts on the upper left corner. Do you like the double approach? After :black: 15 would you cut as white or play as in the game. And if white didn't cut would you run the stone out, or take the corner? And of course, would you just do something else entirely.

And around move 106. Do you think it is feasible for black to go for the kill?

Those are my two burning questions. Of course if anyone sees a line that will make me and/or hailthorn kick ourselves for not seeing it. I hope I can speak for both of us that it would be very much appreciated if you share. :mrgreen:


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 Post subject: Re: Best Of Seven Series (Twitchy Go vs Hailthorn)
Post #8 Posted: Tue Jan 08, 2013 1:55 am 
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.5

haha i suppose you guys are very evenly matched :]

my only complaint is i have to wait a week until the next game.

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Post #9 Posted: Tue Jan 08, 2013 2:20 am 
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This post by EdLee was liked by 2 people: hailthorn011, Twitchy Go
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 Post subject: Re: Best Of Seven Series (Twitchy Go vs Hailthorn)
Post #10 Posted: Wed Jan 16, 2013 2:44 pm 
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And Hailthorn falls into the dreaded 0-2 hole! Can he make a dramatic comeback and take the series or will he be swept in four games? Stay tuned to find out!



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 Post subject: Re: Best Of Seven Series (Twitchy Go vs Hailthorn)
Post #11 Posted: Wed Jan 16, 2013 4:12 pm 
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You probably figured this out, but don't invade with 49 if you want to play that 55: just stand up.

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 Post subject: Re: Best Of Seven Series (Twitchy Go vs Hailthorn)
Post #12 Posted: Wed Jan 16, 2013 10:39 pm 
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Well, I really wanted to review a game of someone who has an avatar of the best pony. I've even customized my SGF client to have a Rainbow Dash theme, to give me extra confidence and swagger when I play online Go :P.


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 Post subject: Re: Best Of Seven Series (Twitchy Go vs Hailthorn)
Post #13 Posted: Wed Jan 16, 2013 11:42 pm 
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Dusk Eagle wrote:
Well, I really wanted to review a game of someone who has an avatar of the best pony. I've even customized my SGF client to have a Rainbow Dash theme, to give me extra confidence and swagger when I play online Go :P.



Dusk eagle I have a few questions if you don't mind.

for ease of navigating questions are around:
move 16, move 54 and move 86

Please and Thank you.


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 Post subject: Re: Best Of Seven Series (Twitchy Go vs Hailthorn)
Post #14 Posted: Thu Jan 17, 2013 4:59 am 
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No problem. :)

:w16: : Sometimes the jump to the first line is better, but in this shape I think the solid connection is better. The reason is easiest explained by looking at how the actual game turned out. After :w26:, black can take B8 in sente, which is quite useful for him (this isn't sente if you block at C2). By playing C2 instead of C1, you may give black the first line sente hane-and-connect, but that's not as big as letting black block off the left side in sente.

:w54: : The problem with that sequence is that it leaves your Q4 group weak and exposed. I'm not sure what the exact best move is for black here, but let's say he plays something like Q8, which seems pretty good. Now you're white group is getting surrounded and will have to struggle around a bit to live (of course it can live, but you may have to play some small moves or moves that help black to do it). Meanwhile, all of the black stones around the J3 stone are very strong, meaning J3 only serves the purpose of making territory, without attacking black in any way. Invading for territory is okay, but it's better when you can simultaneously threaten your opponent while invading.

So, in my proposed variation (Q2 at Q3), white has a lot more eyespace in the corner, and the black group has less eyespace and more weaknesses to exploit with an invasion around J3. Also, because your group in the corner is stronger, it has the automatic effect of making the black R8 stone weaker.

:w86: : In this situation, I would've directly helped white's group on the left, probably with a move like J10 or K10. The group is rather large to sacrifice, and letting black get more moves to attack it doesn't feel all that good to me. I think it's better to firmly secure this group first before trying to profit from the black stone on the right.

I hope this helped. If you have any other questions just ask :).

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Each of us woke up one moment and here we were in the darkness.
We're nameless things with no memory; no knowledge of what went before,
No understanding of what is now, no knowledge of what will be.


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 Post subject: Re: Best Of Seven Series (Twitchy Go vs Hailthorn)
Post #15 Posted: Wed Jan 23, 2013 12:27 pm 
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And Hailthorn is one game away from being swept in 4 games by Twitchy Go! Can he make a dramatic comeback? Find out in Game 4.

That being said, I feel I played pretty badly in this game and I misread a lot. Still, there's always tomorrow.

Good game Twitchy Go. :salute:


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 Post subject: Re: Best Of Seven Series (Twitchy Go vs Hailthorn)
Post #16 Posted: Wed Jan 23, 2013 2:59 pm 
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I must admit, in game 3, I don't like move 6. Black has made the bottom side uninteresting by playing the low 3-5 stone, but it's not big for white to prevent an approach because that's not black's primary direction of development from the shimari. If both sides continue to mirror, black will get the advantage as soon as he plays on the K line, if not earlier. Also, white's bottom left is much less secure than black's bottom right. I would be more inclined to wedge or to approach black's 4-4 stone. Apparently, according to Sensei's, Go Seigen likes the shoulder hit on the 5-3 stone followed by a wedge or inside approach to the 4-4 stone.

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 Post subject: Re: Best Of Seven Series (Twitchy Go vs Hailthorn)
Post #17 Posted: Wed Jan 23, 2013 7:17 pm 
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I have one question about this game, and if people could give me their thoughts I'd appreciate it.
:black: 21: One thing I have had trouble with in the past is seeing a framework being built and reducing it properly. In fact, a large number of my losses result from being very very bad with reduction. I go in to deep get enclosed and die. As such I was very conscious of sector lines when picking this move. I'd like to hear peoples opinions on my reduction. Is it a good time to reduce? Is there perhaps a better point to reduce from? And so on. Thank you in advance, and have a good night.

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 Post subject: Re: Best Of Seven Series (Twitchy Go vs Hailthorn)
Post #18 Posted: Thu Jan 24, 2013 10:32 am 
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skydyr wrote:
I must admit, in game 3, I don't like move 6. Black has made the bottom side uninteresting by playing the low 3-5 stone, but it's not big for white to prevent an approach because that's not black's primary direction of development from the shimari. If both sides continue to mirror, black will get the advantage as soon as he plays on the K line, if not earlier. Also, white's bottom left is much less secure than black's bottom right. I would be more inclined to wedge or to approach black's 4-4 stone. Apparently, according to Sensei's, Go Seigen likes the shoulder hit on the 5-3 stone followed by a wedge or inside approach to the 4-4 stone.

While I would normally approach black's 4-4 stone as white (wedge is also fine), if white wanted to make a shimari, I feel doing so on the top side would be slightly better.

:w12: seems odd. However, for :b13:, I would just stand up at D14. If white moves out into the center for :w14:, the corner will still be open, and if white tries to seal off the corner, white will end up getting sealed into the corner (which is not something white should want). As it is, the result after :w16: seems better for white to me.

Black could consider playing at K4 instead of K3 for :b17:. This has more presence in the center.

I'm not really sure where the best place to play for :b21: is. If you want to reduce from the center, maybe K10 instead? This makes a white cap less effective, and can even work to in conjunction with your own moyo if you get to play L6.

I like :w22:, it shows good fighting spirit :).

I don't really like :b23:, but it's hard to find a good move for black here (which is why I think K10 > J10). If I were white, I would probably just play D9 in response, though E9 may work too.

I think :w36: should be at C3. This solidifies white's bottom group and is quite large in terms of points. When black gets C3, the swing in terms of both strength of groups and number of points is quite large.

Finally, I agree with Twitchy Go that it wasn't yet resigning time for white. There's a while right side for white to try and create complications on, and if white captures at F10 black's J10 stone starts to look a little stranded. I would keep trying for a little bit longer if I was white.

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 Post subject: Re: Best Of Seven Series (Twitchy Go vs Hailthorn)
Post #19 Posted: Tue Jan 29, 2013 1:04 pm 
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Finally, the Hailthorn has come back....to L19!!!!

As you all know, tomorrow is the decisive Game 4 of Hailthorn's series with Twitchy Go. It's been a lopsided affair thus far with Twitchy Go dominating the series by taking 3 straight games against Hailthorn. After a 0.5 Game 1 this series had the makings of an epic back and forth clash. But the next two games quickly proved that Twitchy Go is playing on another level.

When asked about Twitchy Go's play, Hailthorn had this to say: "Why am I talking to myself?" You heard it here first folks.

But this is a critical game in the series. Down three games, can he forget the last three games and finally take Game 4? Or will it end with Hailthorn being swept?

What will go down in the next game? The game starts at 1:00 PM EST on February 13th.
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That aside, I have found this series to be quite fun. And I'm wondering if anyone would like to play a seven game series after this one has concluded? Any rank is fine.

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Last edited by hailthorn011 on Fri Feb 01, 2013 1:37 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Best Of Seven Series (Twitchy Go vs Hailthorn)
Post #20 Posted: Fri Feb 01, 2013 11:10 am 
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So how did it go? Who won?

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