ParadoxGo wrote:
Can I get some thoughts?
Yes, enjoy it! 
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| My Fuseki http://www.lifein19x19.com/viewtopic.php?f=12&t=9005 |
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| Author: | ParadoxGo [ Sun Sep 01, 2013 12:45 am ] |
| Post subject: | My Fuseki |
This is a fuseki I created. Can I get some thoughts? I won 1 game with it and lost another so far. I need to figure out exactly how to work with it. (a is miai) |
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| Author: | EdLee [ Sun Sep 01, 2013 2:17 am ] |
| Post subject: | |
ParadoxGo wrote: Can I get some thoughts? Yes, enjoy it!
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| Author: | ez4u [ Sun Sep 01, 2013 4:13 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: My Fuseki |
ParadoxGo wrote: This is a fuseki I created. Can I get some thoughts? I won 1 game with it and lost another so far. I need to figure out exactly how to work with it. What did you think about in 'creating' it? |
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| Author: | tchan001 [ Sun Sep 01, 2013 4:51 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: My Fuseki |
Normally, if you create a fuseki, it's you explaining why you chose to play this way rather than asking for other people's feedback first. Why do you want to play this way? What are the objectives you are trying to achieve by playing this way? Then people can help you evaluate if your objectives make sense in light of your fuseki. |
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| Author: | emeraldemon [ Sun Sep 01, 2013 6:50 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: My Fuseki |
Reminds me a bit of Jabberwocks |
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| Author: | ParadoxGo [ Sun Sep 01, 2013 11:00 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: My Fuseki |
tchan001 wrote: Normally, if you create a fuseki, it's you explaining why you chose to play this way rather than asking for other people's feedback first. Why do you want to play this way? What are the objectives you are trying to achieve by playing this way? Then people can help you evaluate if your objectives make sense in light of your fuseki. I guess I created it with the intention of having the option of either a territory game or an influence game. If white approaches my bottom point, I'll secure territory on the top and right with a shimari on the upper right, also giving myself a good shape with the right side. This basically will give up my bottom corner territory where I'll try to make some influence and hopefully take territory on the bottom left. I'm not as sure of how to play if approached on the top. I'll shimari on the bottom right star point, making a good shape on the bottom right with my right side star point stone. But then I don't know what exactly to do with the top point. I think I would still try to fight for that territory after white adds a second stone there. Being only 8k, I'm still learning the reasoning for fuseki and ideal shapes, so this might all be wrong. |
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| Author: | asura [ Sun Sep 01, 2013 11:48 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: My Fuseki |
ParadoxGo wrote: I guess I created it with the intention of having the option of either a territory game or an influence game. I'm not sure, but it seems that with your plan you could also play 3 at A in LR-corner. Now when w approches (lets say UR corner, cos it's symmetric) you can make a shimari at 3 and would get the same position. That would mean that w has the option to choose an territory or influence game, but not b. |
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| Author: | DrStraw [ Sun Sep 01, 2013 3:39 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: My Fuseki |
I would rather say that you recreated it. I have seen it several times before but never played it myself. |
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| Author: | speedchase [ Sun Sep 01, 2013 4:08 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: My Fuseki |
Honestly, I don't like it very much. It gives all control of the game to white. |
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| Author: | illluck [ Sun Sep 01, 2013 4:15 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: My Fuseki |
It looks playable, as does pretty much all opening moves that are above the second line and not clumped together. I'm not sure the two "a"s are miai, though. The one below seems larger (though personally I' probably play the two space high approach instead). |
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| Author: | wineandgolover [ Mon Sep 02, 2013 5:10 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: My Fuseki |
illluck wrote: It looks playable, as does pretty much all opening moves that are above the second line and not clumped together. I'm not sure the two "a"s are miai, though. The one below seems larger (though personally I' probably play the two space high approach instead). If black gets sente after 6, then finishes the lower right corner (because it is miai), he is maybe too over-focused on the right side. White has sente and it feels like she is developing faster. If black plays somewhere else, than the OP's two "a" points weren't really miai, after all. That said, this seems perfectly playable. Play it 10 or 20 times and let us know! |
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| Author: | Dusk Eagle [ Mon Sep 02, 2013 8:24 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: My Fuseki |
Given the choice between  and 'a', I would definitely choose . Why? Because by playing at 'a', you are already playing inside black's sphere of influence. Black will probably use that to build up a huge amount of influence toward the side and center with which he will control the entire flow of the game. By playing at instead, you are staking a claim to some outside influence, and no matter what move black plays in the bottom there's still plenty of opportunity for reductions or invasions later.
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| Author: | ParadoxGo [ Mon Sep 02, 2013 1:17 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: My Fuseki |
I've played 3 games with it without a win. I'm starting to agree with some of the comments; it is a little too over concentrated on the right side. Plus, white never approaches the bottom right, because that's too dangerous. So next game I might be better off playing elsewhere after white 6. I'm thinking that approaching the bottom left might be good. Or hitting the bottom star point. I'll try both. |
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| Author: | EdLee [ Mon Sep 02, 2013 1:21 pm ] |
| Post subject: | |
ParadoxGo wrote: I've played 3 games with it without a win. Your  ,  , and  most likely did not lose the 3 games; rather, later mistakes did.If you post your 3 losses here, then we can see if this is indeed the case. Also, wineandgolover's suggestion of 10-20 games is good -- the statistics will be better with more games. |
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| Author: | ParadoxGo [ Mon Sep 02, 2013 4:30 pm ] | ||||
| Post subject: | Re: | ||||
EdLee wrote: ParadoxGo wrote: I've played 3 games with it without a win. Your , , and most likely did not lose the 3 games; rather, later mistakes did.If you post your 3 losses here, then we can see if this is indeed the case. Also, wineandgolover's suggestion of 10-20 games is good -- the statistics will be better with more games. Oh yeah, I'm almost positive it's my mistakes and not the fuseki. But I need to figure out how to work this fuseki better if I want to not make the mistakes I'm making. Here are the games:
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| Author: | EdLee [ Mon Sep 02, 2013 7:24 pm ] |
| Post subject: | |
ParadoxGo wrote: Oh yeah, I'm almost positive it's my mistakes and not the fuseki. Yes, it is in your basics. For example, But I need to figure out how to work this fuseki better if I want to not make the mistakes I'm making.  in game 1 at R3 (3-3) instead.
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| Author: | jts [ Mon Sep 02, 2013 8:54 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: |
EdLee wrote: ParadoxGo wrote: Oh yeah, I'm almost positive it's my mistakes and not the fuseki. Yes, it is in your basics. For example, But I need to figure out how to work this fuseki better if I want to not make the mistakes I'm making. in game 1 at R3 (3-3) instead.Maybe this is semantics, but attaching underneath isn't really a fundamental or a basic concept. Something like  is a fundamental error: saving a worthless stone. (And then to be sporting, B plays  ...?) is a shape concept that an 8k should become familiar with, and that looks silly to people who play out a related joseki in every other game.The principle here that is worth treating as basic is that a little bit of corner access (i.e., the difference between q-3 and r-3) can mean a huge amount in terms of points and the strength or weakness of each group. Once you accept that principle, it's obvious that playing q3 is a big loss if you could have gotten away with r3; and you'll learn that r3 is often sound in this sort of corner situation by reading and playing it out. 1st game: Hard to say there's anything wrong with your fuseki specifically. To me it looks like your fuseki instincts are developing as they should be, but you have trouble following through in fighting. At move 15, the fight looks promising for you; at 22, it looks like you've given up a huge amount. But I think that was your reading of the brawl, not your grasp of the fuseki. 2nd game: You don't seem to be thinking of your fuseki moves in terms of threats and follow-ups, or in terms of longer term aims for the middle game. For example, I'm not sure if I would play , but if I did, I would only play it with a plan for how to attack those to stones if W ignored. Take the corner profit in sente? Or play r7 and seal white in the corner? But nonetheless, middle game types of mistakes were a bigger problem.3rd game:  defies a pretty basic principle - don't ignore contact moves. (This diagonal approach doesn't actually touch your stone, but W can follow up by starting a contact fight, and he'll be one move ahead.) Then you do it again with  . I would say things look a bit tough for black at  , so in this game we can say that your troubles might have started in the opening, but I don't think the gap you needed to overcome means much compared to the cost of, say, playing out a broken ladder.
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| Author: | judicata [ Tue Sep 03, 2013 7:05 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Re: |
jts wrote: EdLee wrote: Yes, it is in your basics. For example, Maybe this is semantics, but attaching underneath isn't really a fundamental or a basic concept. in game 1 at R3 (3-3) instead.I think EdLee's comment is pretty basic. I wouldn't say attaching underneath is the "only move," necessarily, but playing R3 instead of Q3 is a basic concept. |
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| Author: | Dusk Eagle [ Tue Sep 03, 2013 7:16 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: My Fuseki |
In the first game, you'd be so much better off if you had saved your one stone at move . Notice how after that, white's three stones would be completely surrounded by black with very little room to make life. Even if they did manage to survive, it would be at the cost of giving black huge outside influence.
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| Author: | jts [ Tue Sep 03, 2013 12:12 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Re: |
judicata wrote: jts wrote: EdLee wrote: Yes, it is in your basics. For example, Maybe this is semantics, but attaching underneath isn't really a fundamental or a basic concept. in game 1 at R3 (3-3) instead.I think EdLee's comment is pretty basic. I wouldn't say attaching underneath is the "only move," necessarily, but playing R3 instead of Q3 is a basic concept. I don't think it makes sense to call it a basic concept because elsewhere on the board the attachment under, while usually possible, is often incorrect (either in terms of points or implications for fighting). Unless we are using "basic" to mean "something that an 8k can learn", in which case, sure. More generally, if you have to use coordinates to state your "basic concept", it probably isn't that basic, imho. I might make an exception for some rule about making eyes in the corner (since 6 stones to live in the corner, 8 stones to live against the side, and 10 to live in the center really is a basic concept). |
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