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Consensus about Go books
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Author:  jts [ Mon Sep 16, 2013 11:36 am ]
Post subject:  Consensus about Go books
Kiseido is having a sale (has anyone posted this yet? yup, a sale, go check it out, same details as last year - buy lots of books, get something off and free shipping), which led me to reflect that people talk a lot about beginner Go books, and much less about everything else. I feel like the Elementary Go Series, in particular, gets talked to death, and I have a good sense of which how people in general feel about each book in that series. Learn to Play Go, people are always weighing the pros and cons. GGPB, we never stop recommending that, and hair-splitting about which volume is best for which level of player is always good for a week-long discussion.

But what about the Get Strong series - everyone loves Get Strong at Tesuji, but what about the other volumes? Does no one talk about them because no one has read them, or because they're not good, or what? What about Graded Problems for Dan Players? The Mastering the Basics series is intermediate, I think... some of the volumes get some attention but not a huge amount, so not enough for me to have a clear sense if there are a few major impressions shared by most of the players who have explored that series.

I've only mentioned less-discussed Kiseido series because Kiseido is having a sale and I'm scratching my head. But obviously other publishers have series that are lower-profile than EGS/LTPG/GGPB, as well, and if anyone wants to share opinions about those series, be my guest.
Author:  RobertJasiek [ Mon Sep 16, 2013 12:25 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Consensus about Go books
There is no consensus. Some tell you that Kiseido problem books are trivial, others tell you that there is nothing better. Actually, the truth is in between: there are bad ones and good ones.
Author:  hyperpape [ Mon Sep 16, 2013 12:28 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Consensus about Go books
I couldn't get through 501 opening problems: it just put me to sleep. 1001 Life and Death problems I've loved forever, though you're probably getting past the point you need it except as a source of quick problems.

Get Strong at the Endgame seems nice, but I had the following problem: how can I play out all the problems at the beginning and remember my results so I can check my understanding later?
Author:  SoDesuNe [ Mon Sep 16, 2013 12:33 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Consensus about Go books
In my opinion the Elemental Go Series has two very good books: Tesuji and Attack and Defend. For me 38 Basic Joseki was a waste of money and I'm far more happy with a real dictionary for a reference. Life and Death might have good content but its presentation is just ultra dry, I also have more fun solving problems than reading about them (e.g. http://www.h-eba.com/heba/JITEN/jiten0-1.html).
In the Beginning is okay, for starters I still recommend Opening Theory Made Easy because I think it's easier and better presented.

From the Get-Strong-series I can also recommend Get Strong at the Opening. It's a good book to build up an intuition about the big/urgent opening moves and it also explains a handful openings through examples. The explanation is quite short since it teaches by exmaple, I like that.
I plan to buy Get Strong at the Endgame but I'm already busy with the books I have.

The same goes for the Mastering-the-Basic-series. I can recommend 501 Opening Problems for the same reasons.
1001 Life-and-Death Problems is a good problem book (lots of problems, lots of practice) for aspiring DDKs, it's difficulty is somewhere between GGPfB vol. 3 and vol. 4.
I still don't like 501 Tesuji Problems, though I can't really say why. I think there a far better books out there, e.g. Yi Ch'ang-Ho's series. I also don't like Making Good Shape, mainly because the "correct answers" seem quite debateable; on Sensei's Library there is even the example where a pro says one book answer is wrong and another not optimal.

I know some of the GGPfDP volumes (the japanese version), the problems are good. I especially like the Opening and Middle Game book (good for intuition again). But I think the english versions are far too expensive.
Author:  jts [ Mon Sep 16, 2013 12:57 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Consensus about Go books
SoDesuNe wrote:
I know some of the GGPfDP volumes (the japanese version), the problems are good. I especially like the Opening and Middle Game book (good for intuition again). But I think the english versions are far too expensive.

In the sense that it's a shame that they're pricier than the Japanese version at the same cost, or in the sense that $0.08 per problem is bad value for what you get?

Edit: As I look at the catalog I see that Kiseido uses a 100:1 Y/$ exchange rate, but the exchange rate for the Euro varies by the book. It appears that GGPfDP uses the worst Y/E exchange rate of all of their series. :rambo:
Author:  dumbrope [ Mon Sep 16, 2013 1:39 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Consensus about Go books
I have all of the "Mastering the Basics" series. They're good books, but I'd have to reread them to provide detailed reviews, so for now I'll just share one-liners.


  • K71: Volume One: 501 Opening Problems US$25; €21; ¥2,500
    Because I've studied opening theory before from Yilun Yang's books and other sources, this book is a bit of a breeze in comparison, but it's good to have to quickly go through to make sure my sensibilities don't go far out of whack.
  • K72: Volume Two: 1001 Life-and-Death Problems US$25; €21; ¥2,500
    A decent set of problems, good for drilling basic shapes and techniques.
  • K73: Volume Three: Making Good Shape US$25; €21; ¥2,500
    I found it a little disappointing, because it's mostly just a lot of examples so I cannot say I know what good shape is any better than before reading it.
  • K74: Volume Four: 501 Tesuji Problems US$25; €21; ¥2,500
    Good problems, but inconsistent in difficulty even when accounting for the * to *** groupings.
  • K75: Volume Five: The Basics of Go Strategy US$25; €21; ¥2,500
    In this update of the famous Strategic Concepts of Go, the language is better, the concepts are easy, and the tactics backing up the concepts are sometimes too difficult for me.
  • K76: Volume Six: All About Ko US$25; €21; ¥2,500
    I've saving this book for review when I am stronger because of difficulty of tactics in examples.
  • K77: Volume Seven: Attacking and Defending Moyos US$25; €21; ¥2,500
    This is a very nice book for examples but did not introduce new ideas for me.
  • K78: Volume Eight: Fight Like a Pro -- The Secrets of Kiai US$25; €21; ¥2,500
    This book, which uses mostly modern pro games, reads like a game review book comparable with books in Hinoki's Press Heart of Go Discovery Series, of which I have all, though it is not written by pros.

If you are adding to your shopping list, it's a matter of taste. I would certainly say that anyone who hasn't read Strategic Concepts of Go or was put off by the excess of Japanese terms in that book should seriously consider "The Basics of Go Strategy." Though I didn't like the book much, it's possible Making Good Shape gained me a couple of stones at the time I first read it (around 10k-9k). I can't claim that the others had any improvement effect at all.
Author:  quantumf [ Mon Sep 16, 2013 1:53 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Consensus about Go books
SoDesuNe wrote:
I still don't like 501 Tesuji Problems, though I can't really say why. I think there a far better books out there, e.g. Yi Ch'ang-Ho's series.


I think this is a great book on tesuji's, but I think I can understand your difficulty with it, which is one I share - there is very little grading or introduction to the problems. While the first few are pretty easy, it gets tricky quickly. Problem 27 is about as hard as problem 427. The Lee Changho books are much more clearly graded, but I still regard the 501 as a superior collection.

Small anecdote - on a recent trip to Japan, thanks to a peculiar series of coincidences, I was fortunate to have an opportunity to meet up with Richard Bozulich. The only book I took with me to Japan was 501 Tesuji Problems, so I took the opportunity to request Richard to sign his book for me.
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Author:  jts [ Mon Sep 16, 2013 2:17 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Consensus about Go books
Thanks to everyone for their contributions so far.

dumbrope wrote:
... comparable with books in Hinoki's Press Heart of Go Discovery Series, of which I have all, though it is not written by pros.

If you are adding to your shopping list, it's a matter of taste. I would certainly say that anyone who hasn't read Strategic Concepts of Go or was put off by the excess of Japanese terms in that book should seriously consider "The Basics of Go Strategy." Though I didn't like the book much, it's possible Making Good Shape gained me a couple of stones at the time I first read it (around 10k-9k). I can't claim that the others had any improvement effect at all.


Is Basics of Go Strategy still in basically a joseki format? I didn't mind the Japanese but I thought the original was a little light on, well, strategic concepts. Here we have an enclosure-probe joseki, here we have joseki that starts from a kikashi, etc. etc.

I will probably not be buying the Heart of Go series but please consider sharing your impressions. It's another series I know nothing about.
Author:  SoDesuNe [ Mon Sep 16, 2013 2:24 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Consensus about Go books
jts wrote:
SoDesuNe wrote:
I know some of the GGPfDP volumes (the japanese version), the problems are good. I especially like the Opening and Middle Game book (good for intuition again). But I think the english versions are far too expensive.

In the sense that it's a shame that they're pricier than the Japanese version at the same cost, or in the sense that $0.08 per problem is bad value for what you get?

Edit: As I look at the catalog I see that Kiseido uses a 100:1 Y/$ exchange rate, but the exchange rate for the Euro varies by the book. It appears that GGPfDP uses the worst Y/E exchange rate of all of their series. :rambo:


I just compared the price of the other problem collections (1001 Life-and-Death Problems, 501 Opening / Tesuji Problems, GGPfB) to GGPfDP and they are all cheaper while offering more or approximately the same amount of problems. GGPfDP might be the new thing right now but there are a lot of very good problem collections out there and they are cheaper as well (e.g. 200 Tesuji / Endgame Problems, Essential Life-and-Death, Gateway to All Marvels).
The Opening and Middle Game one is for me the only unique-enough book to justify the price.
Author:  jts [ Mon Sep 16, 2013 2:28 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Consensus about Go books
SoDesuNe wrote:
jts wrote:
SoDesuNe wrote:
I know some of the GGPfDP volumes (the japanese version), the problems are good. I especially like the Opening and Middle Game book (good for intuition again). But I think the english versions are far too expensive.

In the sense that it's a shame that they're pricier than the Japanese version at the same cost, or in the sense that $0.08 per problem is bad value for what you get?

Edit: As I look at the catalog I see that Kiseido uses a 100:1 Y/$ exchange rate, but the exchange rate for the Euro varies by the book. It appears that GGPfDP uses the worst Y/E exchange rate of all of their series. :rambo:


I just compared the price of the other problem collections (1001 Life-and-Death Problems, 501 Opening / Tesuji Problems, GGPfB) to GGPfDP and they are all cheaper while offering more or approximately the same amount of problems. GGPfDP might be the new thing right now but there are a lot of very good problem collections out there and they are cheaper as well (e.g. 200 Tesuji / Endgame Problems, Essential Life-and-Death, Gateway to All Marvels).
The Opening and Middle Game one is for me the only unique-enough book to justify the price.

Interesting perspective, thanks.
Author:  dumbrope [ Tue Sep 17, 2013 2:57 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Consensus about Go books
jts wrote:
Is Basics of Go Strategy still in basically a joseki format? I didn't mind the Japanese but I thought the original was a little light on, well, strategic concepts. Here we have an enclosure-probe joseki, here we have joseki that starts from a kikashi, etc. etc.


I would say most of the examples are opening to early middle game. The book is 216 pages long and there are 8 chapters. Bozulich calls out the 1st three chapters as the ones were content was still "heavily borrowed" from Nagahara. Maybe calling it an "update" isn't giving sufficient credit.

  • Aji
  • Forcing Moves
  • Probing Moves
  • Attacking Heavy Stones
  • Light Stones and Sabaki
  • Junk Stones
  • Key Stones
  • Thickness
  • 101 Problems

Now the problem section starts at page 69, so that's about 2/3 of the book.
Author:  Boidhre [ Tue Sep 17, 2013 4:09 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Consensus about Go books
The anomaly with Get Strong at Tesuji is that it's a lot easier than the other books in that series, similar to 1001 Life and Death compared to 501 Tesuji etc. You hear about them so much because they're accessible to so many more players than say Get Strong at Invading is (crucially they're accessible to weak sdks/strong ddks who talk a lot about books and ask for recommendations a lot more).
Author:  karaklis [ Tue Sep 17, 2013 10:38 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Consensus about Go books
dumbrope wrote:
[*]K74: Volume Four: 501 Tesuji Problems US$25; €21; ¥2,500
Good problems, but inconsistent in difficulty even when accounting for the * to *** groupings.

Am I missing something? In my 501 Tesuji Problems book there are no groupings. I wish there were. Maybe you confused that with "Get Strong at Tesuji"?
Author:  skydyr [ Wed Sep 18, 2013 8:34 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Consensus about Go books
karaklis wrote:
dumbrope wrote:
[*]K74: Volume Four: 501 Tesuji Problems US$25; €21; ¥2,500
Good problems, but inconsistent in difficulty even when accounting for the * to *** groupings.

Am I missing something? In my 501 Tesuji Problems book there are no groupings. I wish there were. Maybe you confused that with "Get Strong at Tesuji"?

Get Strong at Tesuji has the problems graded by one to three (4 near the end) stars based on difficulty, though they're interspersed throughout the book.
Author:  Jhyn [ Thu Sep 26, 2013 3:20 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Consensus about Go books
My humble opinion:

Opening :

Opening theory made easy is good for the beginning, and I didn't like very much In the Beginning. For more advanced players, 501 opening problems but I find this kind of clear-cut situations rarely happen in my games. I found The Direction of Play very cryptic, with a lot of "clearly" that are not clear at all and no explanations, so I wouldn't recommend it unless you're stronger than me. I'd like to find a good opening book for my level.

Life & Death :

Most of them are good, though I have a favourite in The korean baduk problem academy (unfortunately hard to find). Life & Death by Davies is strange but I appreciated learning by heart of the status of some basic shapes.

Tesuji :

Tesuji is an excellent first book esp. for strong DDK and weak SDK. Later, 501 tesuji problems has interesting problems but the difficulty varies wildly and some problems are unclear even after you read the solution.

Middle-game :

Attack and Defense is good for a first book. Later Making good shape and The Basics of go strategy are fine but suffer from the same issues than 501 tesuji problems (some problems are out there).

Endgame :

I am reading Get strong at the endgame and it is an absolute must (average to strong SDK). I didn't like The Endgame.
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