On the forum of dragon go server there was this question

http://www.dragongoserver.net/forum/rea ... 27134#new1

and the conclusion was:


so a total of 1045 go professionals.

Does this ring true?

And how about European an American professionals?

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Not many.

See: http://learnbaduk.com/western-go-professionals.html

But then there are several, most notably the American Jie Li, who are of professional strength but don't have the formal certification.

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They are of course included in the above counts. There're no professional organizations in Europe or America.

This remark is 99 and 44/100 % correct. At present, pros are only certified in the Asian countries listed, so any American or European pros would be included.

Technically, however, there is an American Professional Go Association, but even that is not very active, at least at the moment.

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My days of not taking you seriously are certainly coming to a middle

Oh wow, I didn't know it existed. It looks quite dead though, judging by the website and the senseis entry.

James Kerwin estimated 1200, so maybe around that?

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"There are no limits. There are plateaus, but you must not stay there, you must go beyond them. If it kills you, it kills you. A man must constantly exceed his level." -- Bruce Lee

Totally OT: does anyone know how this compares to e.g. number of professional sumo wrestlers?

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According to wikipedia, there are about 700 professional sumo wrestlers in Japan, of whom 55 are listed as foreigners. Professional sumo is practiced exclusively in Japan.

Im a fan of professional sumo in Japan, so Ill comment on this.

The system of professional sumo cannot be compared to the system of professional go. Only the participants of the upper two leagues (called sekitori, about 70 wrestlers) get a regular income and can actually make a living from sumo, so they are maybe comparable to go professionals.

Practically anybody can enter professional sumo, providing he is accepted by a stable (foreigners are limited to one per stable, after a massive influx of Mongolians since in Mongolia wrestling is a national sport).

But fighting Your way into the upper leagues, forced to live in a "stable" in a kind of strict apprenticeship, earning no money until reaching one of the few slots in the upper leagues, is so tough that only amateur prodigies (successful in school or amateur tournaments) or young people with almost no perspective in life would try to enter sumo.

One of the wrestlers whose progress Im following (his ring name is Tochinowaka) entered professional sumo as a national high school champion at the age of 19, at the impressive size of 196 cm and about 140 kg, he is 22 now and he has been hovering at the top of the 3rd league for about a year. So the guy has spent the last 3 years in a kind of dormitory with other sumo wrestlers, doing only training and household chores and not earning any money (they do get some pocket money, but no regular income), and has nothing to show for it unless he manages to advance to the 2nd league.

Its possible to be demoted from these upper leagues (sometimes wrestlers just arent good enough, more often its caused by an injury), and then the income will be reduced to zero again.

After a certain amount of tournaments as a sekitori in the upper leagues, a wrestler becomes eligible to acquire (buy or inherit) a share of the sumo association (kabu), after which he can become a trainer or stablemaster with a regular income until retirement age, when the kabu will be sold or given to a junior wrestler.

So the people earning money from professional sumo are the wrestlers in the upper two leagues and all the trainers with a share of the sumo association (actually, you cant become trainer without a share), who were successful wrestlers themselves. The lower four leagues can maybe compared to the Insei system in go, where people prepare to become professionals but with no guarantee of success.

I thought this was disbanded a long while back? Are there still talks between the various founders/ pros?

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I know nothing.