1st game,

Shin Jinseo(1p) defeated Lee Changho(9p) by resign.

Shin Jinseo;


He was born in March 2000 and became 1p last year through Young talent pro selection.

In the round for young talent, he defeated Shin Minjoon(1999) and Byun Sangil(1997).

Reminds me of kghin on KGS only stronger

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http://tchan001.wordpress.com
A blog on Asian go books, go sightings, and interesting tidbits
Go is such a beautiful game.

I'm glad I'm not the only one who gets beaten by a 12 year old. Nice to know I'm in such good company It must be weird though to have once been the strongest player in the world and to be forced to resign against a kid.

Just this morning, I was looking at pics of Lee in this thread, and wondering what exactly is the edge that a player loses when they move past their peak. Do they stop keeping up with the latest research? Do they feel that they have nothing left to prove? Does their reading deteriorate?

Does anyone know why Lee lost this game?

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Patience, grasshopper.

IMO this kid is much stronger than players who played against Lee chang ho during his prime.
Lee did lose some but more has to do with competition becoming stronger.
if Shin JS was playing 20 years ago..he would not lose many games against weak professionals who were the majority at that time.

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"The more we think we know about
The greater the unknown"
Words by neil peart, music by geddy lee and alex lifeson

Kifu?

Same goes for the other way around: Maybe Lee Changho would wipe the floor with 9p players now if he was born in 2000.

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Amsterdam, soon.

Or who knows, perhaps if Lee Changho were born in 2000, Shin Jinseo would not be as strong...but it's all just a fun thought exercise. The one thing we do know is that the newer generations will always have a taller giant's shoulders to stand on.

Thats a beautiful game actually. Thanks for sharing!

You're welcome.

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Amsterdam, soon.

i highly doubt that.
players now are much stronger than before and that is the facts.

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"The more we think we know about
The greater the unknown"
Words by neil peart, music by geddy lee and alex lifeson

Players are much stronger now.

Nonetheless, I suspect Lee Changho would be top two in the world if he were still young. Less dominant now than he was then, but the only player who could rival him is Lee Sedol. Maybe some of the young guns now (Park Junghwan especially) will prove themselves in the same class over the long haul, but only time will tell about that.

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Occupy Babel!

Why do you suppose this is? Can they read better, or is it that they have their predecessors such as Lee to learn from?

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Patience, grasshopper.

2nd game Choi Chulhan vs Shin Minjoon(1p 1999) 1/12 1pm(Korea)
3rd game Lee Sedol vs Byun Sangil(2p 1997) 1/13 1pm(Korea)

You can watch this game at Wbaduk or Tygem.

The time setting is 1 hour each and 1 x 60sec overtime.

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Amsterdam, soon.

That game is incredible, the kid is just downright unkillable.

So many of the moves, I was sure he was going to get slaughtered, and then he lives...

Sakata re-incarnated?

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Tactics yes, Tact no...

You need an account to watch (one day for $3 or so), but some people may be interested.

http://gogameguru.com/baduk-tv-videos/b ... ualifiers/

if you look at lee's prime.. cho hoonhyun, seo bongsoo, yoo changhyuk were only players that were able to get titles.
during those time seo bongsoo had hard time beating lee.
but he was still successful because he beat all other professionals.
then how weak are other professionals? answser is very weak. weaker than shin js for sure.

another thought..
lee changed game into endgame oriented game which were not the trend back then.
but not professionals who can not play good endgame will not be successful.
shin and many other young players now knows how to play endgame much better than other professionals of past.

not only endgame improved over time...but also new josekies developed making the game much harder for submisive style like lee to win. players now plays much better, mistakefree game. that is the facts.

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"The more we think we know about
The greater the unknown"
Words by neil peart, music by geddy lee and alex lifeson

Lee Changho rant time!

It could be said that Lee Changho was so strong that very few players understood his go. Don't take my word for it. Lee Sedol says that other pros are wrong to focus on Lee Chanho's endgame and that Lee Changho's was better at the middle game than anyone else. People like to say that he made the endgame more important, and that is true. However, I feel that statement is a indirectly dismissive of his go. There were pros before him, like Ishida, who were deadly at the endgame. Shusaku's Castle Games are still used by some pros to study the endgame. What is often said is that Lee Changho revolutionized the usage of thickness in relation to planning the entirety of the game, rather than just one phase of it. Seo Bongsoo hinted at this when he said that Lee Changho can count points in the center.

The youngster Shin was very impressive yesterday, but the older Lee Changho simply didn't have enough time to make the positional judgment on a compromise that would have led to a favorable game. Although Shin surprised Lee with some good moves, Lee chose to go for the fight that lost him the game, because he didn't want to take a compromise whose outcome he didn't have time to evaluate. Some of Lee's time-sujis hurt him in that fight as well. If there were an extra hour of main time, it would have been Lee's game to lose.

Lee Changho might not win tournaments anymore, but he still is tough matchup for any player in the world despite 1) his age (only top Korean player born in the 70s), 2) much shorter time settings that are used these days (The old Korean title matches had 7-ish hours of main time. Now, even world championships only give 3 hours of main time), and 3) the fact that the current top players grew up studying his games.

Yeah, so I think that Lee Changho would have been better than everyone else even if he was born in 2000 as long as he had the sharpness of a younger mind and the same opportunities that are available to pros today. After all, he is still beating top pros in important games despite all the disadvantages he has. Sure, he might not win 140 titles because players are stronger today, but he would still outclass everyone. Sure, the pros today are stronger than they used to be, but how many of them are capable of changing the paradigm of go?

For a legend, Lee Changho doesn't seem to get the respect that he deserves sometimes. Part of it is that he was always framed in the media narrative as the diligent student because Cho Hunhyun was put into the genius role.

Respect Lee Changho. OR ELSE

PS: What is most impressive about Shin is that he didn't have a teacher until last year. This is kind of like Seo Bongsoo (another player who doesn't get enough respect).

While I agree to most of your comments, I will disagree with the time limits point of view. Just check the KBS winners from the past five years

I will post an inspiring game from two weeks ago: Lee Changho wins against Lee Sedol after a spectacular game. And although I didn't have a chance to see professional comments about this game, I feel it was a really good game for Lee Changho.