17th Nongshim Cup

macelee · **#21**

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$W $$ +---------------------------------------+ $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . O X . . . . O O . . . . X . . . . . | $$ | . O X O O O . X . O . X . O X . . . . | $$ | . . O X X O X . O , . . . X . , X . . | $$ | . O O X O X . X X O . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . X X X O . X . O X 1 . . . . . X . . | $$ | . X . X . X . X O . . O X . . O . X . | $$ | . X O X . . O X . O X O X . X . O O . | $$ | O X O O . . O . . O O X X . . X X O . | $$ | . O O O . . . . X , . O O . O O . . . | $$ | . . X O O . . . . . . . . . . . O O . | $$ | . . X X O X . . . . . X . . . O X X O | $$ | . . O O X . . . . . . . . . . O O X . | $$ | . O O . X O . . . . . . . . . . X . X | $$ | O X X X X O . . . . . . . . . . X X . | $$ | . O . O X X O . . , . X X X X , . . . | $$ | . . O . . X X O O X X O X O O X . . . | $$ | . . X X . X O . O . O O O . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ +---------------------------------------+[/go]

From today's game: white 1 has to give up killing the dragon. Can you see why?

oren · **#22**

Mimura Tomoyasu from Japan said this in his twitter which I found interesting.

"一力七段の碁を見ると強気に仕掛けて戦い抜いて勝っている。このスタイルは特に団体勝ち抜き戦ではプラスに働くと思う。"
He's commenting that Ichiriki's style of Go is winning with strong fighting skills. This style is especially useful in a win through group style tournament.

I don't know exactly why he thinks that way, but I thought it was interesting anyway.

Through Google translate for fun
"If you look at the go of Ichi-ryoku seven stages are won by fought by bullish gimmick. I think this style work plus, especially in group tournament."

Uberdude · **#23**

My answer to macelee's question:

If white tries to kill with the cut of 1, then...

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Wcm1 $$ +---------------------------------------+ $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . O X . . . . O O . . . . X . . . . . | $$ | . O X O O O . X . O . X . O X . . . . | $$ | . . O X X O X 7 O 5 . . . X . , X . . | $$ | . O O X O X . X X O 4 . . . . . . . . | $$ | . X X X O . X 6 O X . . . . . . X . . | $$ | . X . X . X . X O 8 . O X . . O . X . | $$ | . X O X . . O X 9 O X O X . X . O O . | $$ | O X O O . . O 2 1 O O X X . . X X O . | $$ | . O O O . . 0 3 X , . O O . O O . . . | $$ | . . X O O . . . . . . . . . . . O O . | $$ | . . X X O X . . . . . X . . . O X X O | $$ | . . O O X . . . . . . . . . . O O X . | $$ | . O O . X O . . . . . . . . . . X . X | $$ | O X X X X O . . . . . . . . . . X X . | $$ | . O . O X X O . . , . X X X X , . . . | $$ | . . O . . X X O O X X O X O O X . . . | $$ | . . X X . X O . O . O O O . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ +---------------------------------------+[/go]

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Wcm11 $$ +---------------------------------------+ $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . O X . . . . O O . . . . X . . . . . | $$ | . O X O O O . X . O . X . O X . . . . | $$ | . . O X X O X O O O . . . X . , X . . | $$ | . O O X O X . X X O X . . . . . . . . | $$ | . X X X O . X X O X 0 . . . . . X . . | $$ | . X . X . X . X O X 9 O X . . O . X . | $$ | . X O X . . O X O O X O X . X . O O . | $$ | O X O O . 3 O X O O O X X . . X X O . | $$ | . O O O . 2 X O X , 8 O O . O O . . . | $$ | . . X O O . . 1 4 . . . . . . . O O . | $$ | . . X X O X . 5 6 . . X . . . O X X O | $$ | . . O O X . . . 7 . . . . . . O O X . | $$ | . O O . X O . . . . . . . . . . X . X | $$ | O X X X X O . . . . . . . . . . X X . | $$ | . O . O X X O . . , . X X X X , . . . | $$ | . . O . . X X O O X X O X O O X . . . | $$ | . . X X . X O . O . O O O . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ +---------------------------------------+[/go]

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Wcm21 $$ +---------------------------------------+ $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . O X . . . . O O . . . . X . . . . . | $$ | . O X O O O . X . O . X . O X . . . . | $$ | . . O X X O X O O O . . 6 X . , X . . | $$ | . O O X O X . X X O X 2 5 . . . . . . | $$ | . X X X O . X X O X X 1 3 4 . . X . . | $$ | . X . X . X . X O X O O X . . O . X . | $$ | . X O X . . O X O O . O X . X . O O . | $$ | O X O O . O O X O O O X X . . X X O . | $$ | . O O O . X X O X , X O O . O O . . . | $$ | . . X O O . . O X . . . . . . . O O . | $$ | . . X X O X . O X . . X . . . O X X O | $$ | . . O O X . . . O . . . . . . O O X . | $$ | . O O . X O . . . . . . . . . . X . X | $$ | O X X X X O . . . . . . . . . . X X . | $$ | . O . O X X O . . , . X X X X , . . . | $$ | . . O . . X X O O X X O X O O X . . . | $$ | . . X X . X O . O . O O O . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ +---------------------------------------+[/go]

However, maybe white doesn't need to cut (and the consequent liberty problems that creates) but can let black connect and try to kill the whole thing. Harder to read what will happen as black searches for an eye or some capture in the centre, but there's probably enough aji to do something

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Wcm1 $$ +---------------------------------------+ $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . O X . . . . O O . . . . X . . . . . | $$ | . O X O O O . X . O . X . O X . . . . | $$ | . . O X X O X . O , . . . X . , X . . | $$ | . O O X O X . X X O . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . X X X O . X . O X . . . . . . X . . | $$ | . X . X . X . X O . . O X . . O . X . | $$ | . X O X . . O X . O X O X . X . O O . | $$ | O X O O . . O . . O O X X . . X X O . | $$ | . O O O . . . . X , . O O . O O . . . | $$ | . . X O O . . . . 1 . . . . . . O O . | $$ | . . X X O X . . . . . X . . . O X X O | $$ | . . O O X . . . . . . . . . . O O X . | $$ | . O O . X O . . . . . . . . . . X . X | $$ | O X X X X O . . . . . . . . . . X X . | $$ | . O . O X X O . . , . X X X X , . . . | $$ | . . O . . X X O O X X O X O O X . . . | $$ | . . X X . X O . O . O O O . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ +---------------------------------------+[/go]

This makes me wonder though about white's reasoning when he played the hane on the left. Was this a serious attempt to kill and he hadn't seen black's escape? Because in terms of points he lost a lot here and surely there was some better way of playing some move in the sente like L8 that white would have to ignore or answer passively to avoid dying and then once black makes his gote second eye white gets 2 moves in the centre.

John Fairbairn · **#24**

Quote:

"一力七段の碁を見ると強気に仕掛けて戦い抜いて勝っている。このスタイルは特に団体勝ち抜き戦ではプラスに働くと思う。"
He's commenting that Ichiriki's style of Go is winning with strong fighting skills. This style is especially useful in a win through group style tournament.

Thanks for spotting that comment.

Incidentally, is this 'win through' an Americanism I haven't come across yet, or is it your own rendering? I would call it a "win & continue2 team tournament. That was my own rendering, but it seems to have acquired a fair degree of acceptance.

But back to the very interesting comment. I would have thought that the bullish challenges followed by all-out fighting that Mimura describes would be useful in all international events, not just team ones, so I'm a little surprised he didn't go that far. At the same time, there seems to be a hint that it's maybe not so useful back in Japan. Which may be the case, but I suppose we could also argue that Mimura (approaching 60) is one of the old guard that haven't quite got the feel of this new style.

ez4u · **#25**

We have to be careful of how much, and what, we read into such comments. The main differences that I see between the Nongshim Cup and, say, the knockout preliminaries to every Japanese tournament that Mimura's readers would be more familiar with, are that: 1. only one game is played at a time so the spotlight is very much on the players of that game (expect lots of kiai) and 2. you do not know who your opponent will be until the day before (and they are unfamiliar even then) so you have limited ability to prepare based on past experience with that opponent.

Also of course, Mimura is writing to make sense out of Ichiriki's success. If Ichikiki gets trounced next time, let's see whether Mimura writes about how he failed to stay true to his 'successful' approach in games 1-3.

trout · **#26**

4th game;
Wu Guangya defeated Ichiriki Ryo by resign.

Korea:Park Junghwan, Min Sangyeon, Baek Chanhee, Lee Sedol, Choi Cheolhan
China:Ke Jie, Lian Xiao, Wu Guangya, Fan Yunruo, Gu Li
Japan:Iyama Yuuta, Kono Rin, Ida Atzshi, Murakawa Daisuke, Ichiriki Ryo
bold - Remaining players.

---- End of 1st round ----

2nd round: 11/27/2015~12/1/2015
3rd round: 3/1/2016~3/5/2016

macelee · **#27**

Ichiriki Ryo's good fortune came to a very abrupt end. By that I mean he appeared to be doing fine but all of a sudden resigned. It took me about 20 minutes to understand why he had to resign.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Wc why black had to resign? $$ +---------------------------------------+ $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . X O . . . . . X . . O O O O X . | $$ | . . . . X O O X O O X O . O X . X . . | $$ | . X . O X X O . O X O O O . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . X O O . O X X O . O O X . . . | $$ | . . X . X X X X O . . O O X O X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . O . . X X X X X . . . . | $$ | . O X . . . O . O . . . . . . . O . . | $$ | . X X . O . O X . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . X X . X . . , . . . . . , O . . | $$ | . . O O O . X . . . . . . . . X O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . O O . . . O X . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . X O X X . O O X @ . . . . . . O . . | $$ | . X X O X . . . . . . . . . . O X . . | $$ | . . X O O X X X X X O . . . . , X . . | $$ | . . X O . O O O X O . O . . . X . . . | $$ | . . X O . . . . O . O . . . . . . . . | $$ | . X O . . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . | $$ +---------------------------------------+[/go]

gamesorry · **#28**

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Bc This is probably one of the variations... $$ +---------------------------------------+ $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . X O . . . . . X . . O O O O X . | $$ | . . . . X O O X O O X O . O X . X . . | $$ | . X . O X X O . O X O O O . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . X O O . O X X O . O O X . . . | $$ | . . X . X X X X O . . O O X O X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . O . . X X X X X . . . . | $$ | . O X . . . O . O . . . . . . . O . . | $$ | . X X . O . O X . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . X X . X . . , . . . . . , O . . | $$ | . . O O O . X . . . . . . . . X O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . O O . 8 6 O X 1 . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . X O X X 5 O O X O . . . . . . O . . | $$ | . X X O X 4 7 . 2 3 . . . . . O X . . | $$ | . . X O O X X X X X O . . . . , X . . | $$ | . . X O . O O O X O . O . . . X . . . | $$ | . . X O . . . . O . O . . . . . . . . | $$ | . X O . . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . | $$ +---------------------------------------+[/go]

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Bcm9 white is alive $$ +---------------------------------------+ $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . X O . . . . . X . . O O O O X . | $$ | . . . . X O O X O O X O . O X . X . . | $$ | . X . O X X O . O X O O O . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . X O O . O X X O . O O X . . . | $$ | . . X . X X X X O . . O O X O X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . O . . X X X X X . . . . | $$ | . O X . . . O . O . . . . . . . O . . | $$ | . X X . O . O X . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . 6 . X X 5 X . . , . . . . . , O . . | $$ | . . O O O 4 X . . . . . . . . X O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . O O 2 O O O X X . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . X O X X X O O X O . . . . . . O . . | $$ | . X X O X 3 X . O X 1 . . . . O X . . | $$ | . . X O O X X X X X O . . . . , X . . | $$ | . . X O . O O O X O . O . . . X . . . | $$ | . . X O . . . . O . O . . . . . . . . | $$ | . X O . . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . | $$ +---------------------------------------+[/go]

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Bc Another variation... $$ +---------------------------------------+ $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . X O . . . . . X . . O O O O X . | $$ | . . . . X O O X O O X O . O X . X . . | $$ | . X . O X X O . O X O O O . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . X O O . O X X O . O O X . . . | $$ | . . X . X X X X O . . O O X O X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . O . . X X X X X . . . . | $$ | . O X . . . O . O . . . . . . . O . . | $$ | . X X . O . O X . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . X X . X . . , . . . . . , O . . | $$ | . . O O O . X 7 . . . . . . . X O . . | $$ | . . . . . . 6 X 4 . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . O O . 0 . O X 2 3 . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . X O X X 9 O O X O 5 . . . . . O . . | $$ | . X X O X 8 . . 1 . . . . . . O X . . | $$ | . . X O O X X X X X O . . . . , X . . | $$ | . . X O . O O O X O . O . . . X . . . | $$ | . . X O . . . . O . O . . . . . . . . | $$ | . X O . . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . | $$ +---------------------------------------+[/go]

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Bcm11 white is alive $$ +---------------------------------------+ $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . X O . . . . . X . . O O O O X . | $$ | . . . . X O O X O O X O . O X . X . . | $$ | . X . O X X O . O X O O O . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . X O O . O X X O . O O X . . . | $$ | . . X . X X X X O . . O O X O X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . O . . X X X X X . . . . | $$ | . O X . . . O . O . . . . . . . O . . | $$ | . X X . O . O X . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . X X 3 X . . , . . . . . , O . . | $$ | . 6 O O O 2 X X . . . . . . . X O . . | $$ | 9 5 8 . . . O X O . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | 7 O O 0 O 4 O X O X . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . X O X X X O O X O X . . . . . O . . | $$ | . X X O X O 1 . X . . . . . . O X . . | $$ | . . X O O X X X X X O . . . . , X . . | $$ | . . X O . O O O X O . O . . . X . . . | $$ | . . X O . . . . O . O . . . . . . . . | $$ | . X O . . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . | $$ +---------------------------------------+[/go]

macelee · **#29**

The 2nd stage of Nongshim Cup is ongoing now.

Game 5: Choi Cheolhan beat Wu Guangya
Game 6: Choi Cheolhan beat Ida Atsushi

Tomorrow Gu Li is to challenge Choi.

Tournament table here: http://www.go4go.net/go/tournaments/news/28

The complete history of Nongshim Cup: http://www.go4go.net/go/tournaments/nongshim

trout · **#30**

7th game;
Gu Li defeated Choi Cheolhan by resign.

Remaining players;
Korea:Park Junghwan, Lee Sedol, Choi Cheolhan, Min Sangyeon, Baek Chanhee
China:Ke Jie, Lian Xiao, Wu Guangya, Fan Yunruo, Gu Li
Japan:Iyama Yuuta, Kono Rin, Murakawa Daisuke,Ida Atzshi, Ichiriki Ryo
bold - Remaining players.

2nd round: 11/27/2015~12/1/2015
3rd round: 3/1/2016~3/5/2016

trout · **#31**

8th game;
Gu Li defeated Kono Rin by resign.

Remaining players;
Korea:Park Junghwan, Lee Sedol, Choi Cheolhan, Min Sangyeon, Baek Chanhee
China:Ke Jie, Lian Xiao, Wu Guangya, Fan Yunruo, Gu Li
Japan:Iyama Yuuta, Murakawa Daisuke,Ida Atzshi, Ichiriki Ryo, Kono Rin
bold - Remaining players.

2nd round: 11/27/2015~12/1/2015
3rd round: 3/1/2016~3/5/2016

seigenblues · **#32**

The Gu Li vs Kono Rin game was commented by Myungwan Kim here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4FVELH2L2fI

Tonight's game, Gu vs Park J., will also be commented live: https://youtube.com/c/usgoweb/live

macelee · **#33**

Very good quality video. It's interesting to see that Myungwan Kim momentarily played Gu Li's winning sequence but very quickly ruled that out as not working. He is not playing competitively after all so he read it incorrectly.

trout · **#34**

9th game;
Gu Li defeated Park Junghwan by 2.5.

Remaining players;
Korea:Lee Sedol, Choi Cheolhan, Min Sangyeon, Baek Chanhee, Park Junghwan
China:Ke Jie, Lian Xiao, Wu Guangya, Fan Yunruo, Gu Li
Japan:Iyama Yuuta, Murakawa Daisuke,Ida Atzshi, Ichiriki Ryo, Kono Rin
bold - Remaining players.

End of 2nd stage.

3rd round: 3/1/2016~3/5/2016

Uberdude · **#35**

Exciting game, and thanks to Myungwan Kim/Andrew Jackson/AGA for the excellent commentary, of which I finally managed to watch some.

hyperpape · **#36**

The most likely thing at this point is for Lee or Iyama to face Lian Xiao with Ke Jie in reserve--no big deal!

But it might not turn out that way--Gu Li still could sweep the next three players

SaiLens · **#37**

Surprise, China wins. ~

Claint · **#38**

SaiLens wrote:

Surprise, China wins. ~

I was reading this thread and that was kind of misleading for someone like me who just wanted to catch up on the news. After all, it is not over yet, but China is leading.

SaiLens · **#39**

Claint wrote:

SaiLens wrote:

Surprise, China wins. ~

I was reading this thread and that was kind of misleading for someone like me who just wanted to catch up on the news. After all, it is not over yet, but China is leading.

I'm pleased to hear that you did not let your initial misjudgement of my comment stop you from inquiring further.

seigenblues · **#40**

China's definitely leading, but it's hardly over yet. There's definitely still some ways for Japan to win if Iyama is as strong as we think.

For instance, if Murakawa beats Gu Li, then Japan and China both have 2 players. If Lee beats Murakawa, then if Lian Xiao beats Lee, that leaves Iyama having to go through only two players... If Murakawa beats Lee, Japan & China still have 2 players each.

It's not impossible to think that Ke Jie could lose a game, and you can make a pretty compelling argument that Iyama is head and shoulders above the rest of the Japanese players. His last international game was a while ago though... i'll be curious to see how he'll fare.

No question China is in the lead, but i'd have trouble calling it a foregone conclusion.

17th Nongshim Cup

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