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Go Seigen vs. Murata Seiko (1930)
http://www.lifein19x19.com/viewtopic.php?f=13&t=13787		 Page 1 of 1
Author:  Shenoute [ Wed Nov 16, 2016 1:19 am ]
Post subject:  Go Seigen vs. Murata Seiko (1930)
Thought I would share this game in which a young Go Seigen rescues a group thanks to a really nice move. For me at least it was quite an unexpected one and I found myself grinning while replaying the following sequences :D (Can't help but also feel a bit sorry for black).

Starting with move 89, black has attacked white's group in the middle, reduced it to one eye and sealed it in. His last move (155) is the marked stone. At this point, I was wondering how this group could live but white (Go Seigen) played a move that unsettles black's position.

Go Diagram
White to play
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$c White to play
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . O . . . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | X X O O . X . . X O . O . O . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O O X X . X O O X O . . . . . . |
$$ | X O X O . O X . X X . X O . X , X . . |
$$ | . . X O X O . O X . . X O . . . . . . |
$$ | X X X X O O . O X O . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O X O O O X O O O X . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O O X X X X O . X X . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O O O X . . O . X . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X , . X . X . O O X . . . , . . . |
$$ | . O O X X . O O X . . X . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O X O X X X O X O O . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O X . X O X . O X X . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O O X X O X . O O X . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . X O O X O . O X O O . O . . . |
$$ | . . O , O . O X . O X X X X O , O . . |
$$ | . . . O X . O X X O X O . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . . . X . O O X Z O X . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
Author:  Shenoute [ Thu Nov 17, 2016 7:33 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Go Seigen vs. Murata Seiko (1930)
Here is the move :)

Go Diagram
White to play
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$c White to play
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . O . . . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | X X O O . X . . X O . O . O . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O O X X . X O O X O . . . . . . |
$$ | X O X O . O X . X X . X O . X , X . . |
$$ | . . X O X O . O X . . X O . . . . . . |
$$ | X X X X O O . O X O . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O X O O O X O O O X . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O O X X X X O . X X . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O O O X . . O . X . P . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X , . X . X . O O X . . . , . . . |
$$ | . O O X X . O O X . . X . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O X O X X X O X O O . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O X . X O X . O X X . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O O X X O X . O O X . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . X O O X O . O X O O . O . . . |
$$ | . . O , O . O X . O X X X X O , O . . |
$$ | . . . O X . O X X O X O . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . . . X . O O X X O X . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Don't ask me why and how it works precisely but 10-20 moves later Black has to make life for his N7 stones and has to let white's group live by capturing the M9-10 stones.



Attachments:
Go-Murata_1930.sgf [1.35 KiB]
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Author:  lobotommy [ Fri Nov 18, 2016 10:42 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Go Seigen vs. Murata Seiko (1930)
:shock:
Author:  Uberdude [ Fri Nov 18, 2016 11:10 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Go Seigen vs. Murata Seiko (1930)
Well, at least one of my two guesses was right (the other was n9 attach) but I couldn't find a way to make it capture anything quickly enough and gave up. I had anticipated black answering the peep with o9 rather than o10: would that have been better shape given the pain black suffered from p8? Also what's up with o13? I can see some potential problem with white's l16 l14 combo (white leaves the 3 stones hanging in atari as he can connect on the outside thus cutting in sente) so I suppose it helps with that a bit but the pain below... I wonder how confident Go was of surviving: did black really play optimum moves and he had a way out read in any case, or it was "in for a penny, in for a pound"?
Author:  Shenoute [ Fri Nov 18, 2016 1:10 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Go Seigen vs. Murata Seiko (1930)
Congrats on spotting 156 ! That's impressive.

As for o13, I was puzzled by it too so I looked at some sequences. Now, without any degree of certainty, it seems to me that starting with the throw-in at m13 white can seal the black j16 group in, launching a semeai between the two groups. But I would have to look more carefully.

And I asked myself the same question :-) "did Go read beforehand that something worked (and if so, how soon in the game) or was there a point where he was desperate?"
Author:  idontgetit [ Fri Nov 18, 2016 2:08 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Go Seigen vs. Murata Seiko (1930)
WeiqiTV has this program where they pick out the top 5 moves (sometimes its more than 1 move/positions in a game) of the week.

And sometimes, there are moves where at least I get the same kind of feeling as in this game. It's quite interesting. Very recommended.
Author:  Mike Novack [ Fri Nov 18, 2016 2:39 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Go Seigen vs. Murata Seiko (1930)
Shenoute wrote:
And I asked myself the same question :-) "did Go read beforehand that something worked (and if so, how soon in the game) or was there a point where he was desperate?"


But there is a non-excluded middle between being sure it worked and a desperate wild shot.

How about, that move has lots of possibilities, gets very, very complicated, I can't manage to read out if it works or fails. But that means he can't either.
Author:  Shenoute [ Mon Nov 21, 2016 2:05 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Go Seigen vs. Murata Seiko (1930)
idontgetit wrote:
WeiqiTV has this program where they pick out the top 5 moves (sometimes its more than 1 move/positions in a game) of the week.

And sometimes, there are moves where at least I get the same kind of feeling as in this game. It's quite interesting. Very recommended.
Thanks for mentioning it! I'll have a look at it.

Mike Novack wrote:
But there is a non-excluded middle between being sure it worked and a desperate wild shot.

How about, that move has lots of possibilities, gets very, very complicated, I can't manage to read out if it works or fails. But that means he can't either.
Yes, you're right. I'd very much like to have Go's comment on this game :)
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